Advice: schools socially transitioning children without parental knowledge or consent.

[Libby55]

Hi,

The school I work in is socially transitioning children by changing their names and pronouns without informing parents. Adults working in school are supposed to keep this a secret when communicating with parents. I believe this is a safeguarding issue and that the school is harming children. This is something I know little about and I'm asking for help because I'm looking for an organisation that specifically campaigns against schools harming children in this way. My colleagues share my concerns but are afraid to raise their concerns. My union seems to have adopted gender identity politics. I have to do something: I can see children being harmed. If any of you know of a teacher's group that is lobbying against the practice of socially transitioning children without parents' knowledge or consent, please let me know. I would like to get involved.

www.transgendertrend.com/ have some really good advice and information too.

[quote EyeEdinburgh]@CandyLeBonBon Why would the child be present at a parent-teacher meeting?

Is this some new thing? In my day, parents met with their child's teacher without their child present, and passed on, or not, to the child what the teacher had to say.[/quote]
All three of my children have attended parent consultations, because it's long been determined that kids like to feel part of a discussion about their education. It's almost as if you don't understand how supportive parenting works...

PS this mum net account was set up before I entered the trans nightmare when unicorns were mythical one horned horses ( I long for those days again)

@TurquoiseBaubles "No one is suggesting that a teacher, taken into confidence by a child about anything, would immediately go to the parents and repeat what the child said."

Actually, many, many people on this thread are not just suggesting, but strongly demanding, that if a child takes a teacher into their confidence about anything, the teacher should immediately go to the parents and repeat exactly what the child said. And asserting that it doesn't matter if the child learns by this that there are no trusted adults to confide in - it's "safeguarding", apparently, for the child to believe they should only confide to their friends.

I find it very interesting that so many adults on this message board think it would be better for children who know their parents are transphobic, to have no one at all to confide in except their friends, since they know their teachers will promptly tell their parents.

I guess that depends on your definition of “transphobic”, it seems that anything other than absolute affirmation and a rush to reassign gender is transphobic. It’s not transphobic to ensure your child gets appropriate psychological help before socially transitioning, it’s not transphobic to encourage them to wait a while, to follow a process that supports them and protects them and fellow students, it’s not transphobic to question and explore with them where those feelings have come from and to help them unpick that, or to make sure appropriate measures are in place in school to help them.

Frankly, if my child is telling me they feel born in the wrong body I’m absolutely going to want to understand what they mean and how they’ve come to that point. If they can’t have that conversation, I’d suggest they aren’t ready for transitioning.

That’s the very definition of support, especially for children making significantly life changing decisions - hell I’m an adult and would hope my family and friends would do that for me.

Actually, tbh, I feel rather queasy that it's entirely likely some posters on this thread do actually have access to children and would indeed keep secrets for them and stoke their fears that 'Mummy might hurt you if she knows this'. Maybe they're doing it out of naivete. But every time someone is naive, safeguarding is weakened.

Hi @Libby55 this is really concerning to hear.

Social transition is a psychosocial treatment that ought not to be attempted by a school without the close supervision of a clinical psychologist. It is not well supported by evidence. Your school is proposing to implement an experimental treatment on a child, with potentially far-reaching consequences, which they are wholly unqualified to undertake; and to do so without the knowledge of those (ie the parents) with legal responsibility for the child's medical care and welfare.

Two recent studies found that socially transitioning a child did not produce any benefit to the child in terms of psychological functioning, and what mattered was relations with peer and family:
Wong et al 2019: doi.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fcpp0000295
Sievert et al 2020: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33081539/

Wong et al 2019 found "little evidence that psychosocial well-being varied in relation to gender transition status." Sievert et al 2020 found that "Peer problems and worse family functioning were significantly associated with impaired psychological functioning, whilst the degree of social transition did not significantly predict the outcome. Therefore, claims that gender affirmation through transitioning socially is beneficial for children with GD could not be supported". The authors clearly state both that social transition is a 'treatment' and also that parents should be involved: "Both peers and family should be incorporated in the psychosocial treatment of this population as early as possible, because incorporating parents’ needs and feelings in the psychotherapeutic process could improve the child’s situation as well."

It would be richly ironic for a school to socially transition a child without a parent's knowledge, in an attempt to improve the child's wellbeing - when the research here shows that doing this not only doesn't improve the child's wellbeing but (given that it's likely to cause problems in the child-parent relationship) it is likely actually to impair the child's welfare.

Actually, many, many people on this thread are not just suggesting, but strongly demanding, that if a child takes a teacher into their confidence about anything, the teacher should immediately go to the parents and repeat exactly what the child said.

Where? I haven’t seen anyone demand the teacher goes straight to the parent so if you could find a few quotes that would be great, thanks. I’ve seen posters repeatedly state that the school shouldn’t keep secrets from parents and should follow safeguarding processes where there’s a concern the parent poses a risk to the child.

@CandyLeBonBon "All three of my children have attended parent consultations, because it's long been determined that kids like to feel part of a discussion about their education. It's almost as if you don't understand how supportive parenting works..."

Actually, it's almost as if I left school so long ago that I was never part of teacher-parent consultations - thanks for letting me know this has changed. And indeed, as I outlined upthread, I found when I came out to my parents, they did not react like they understood how supportive parenting works. My models for supportive parenting are not the angry adults who demand that if their children don't trust them, teachers need to make sure those children don't trust their teachers either.

If the child is going to be present at a parent-teacher consultation about the child, that sounds like an ideal moment for the teacher to ask the child again: Do you want to discuss with your parents, with me present, the fact that I call you Gloria and use she/her pronouns, at your request? And go with what the child herself decides.

The safeguarding protocols for chidlren who come out to their teachers before they come out to their parents do not say the teacher should urge the child to keep this secret from their parents, contrary to angry assumptions in this thread: they say that the teacher shouldn't violate the child's confidence and discuss this with the child's parents without the child's consent.

[quote EyeEdinburgh]@CandyLeBonBon Why would the child be present at a parent-teacher meeting?

Is this some new thing? In my day, parents met with their child's teacher without their child present, and passed on, or not, to the child what the teacher had to say.[/quote]
In your day. Quite. So you have a) no experience of being a parent of school aged children, or b) no professional experience as a teacher.

Why on earth you think you're in a position to opine on anything to do with safeguarding is baffling.

@Jellycatspyjamas "Where?"

Seriously? I've seen again and again and again in this thread, the angry demand that a teacher absolutely should tell the parents immediately, not allow the child to think they were right to trust the teacher to hold their confidence until the child is ready to trust the parents. Again and again and again, the insistance that if the teacher doesn't violate the child's confidence, this is just like child abuse, this is driving a rift between the parents and the child, that the parents have the absolute right to know everything about the child even if the child doesn't want the parents to know. Are you seriously claiming not to have seen any of these posts on this thread?

they say that the teacher shouldn't violate the child's confidence and discuss this with the child's parents without the child's consent.

Which in itself encourages the child to keep secrets, because their teacher thinks that’s fine.

And again, I’m what way are education staff qualified to diagnose gender dysphoria and how are they equipped to support social transitioning?

I can hear 'Keeeeep digging!' in Bruce Forsythe's voice, for some reason.

[quote EyeEdinburgh]@CandyLeBonBon Why would the child be present at a parent-teacher meeting?

Is this some new thing? In my day, parents met with their child's teacher without their child present, and passed on, or not, to the child what the teacher had to say.[/quote]
I've been a teacher for nearly 20 years and children have always been present at parents' evening. It's almost like some posters have no understanding of how schools work.

Having said that, the NEU guidance is atrocious. Some serious work went into phrasing that sentence quotes above on 'criminal offence' so that its meaning was ambiguous.

@EyeEdinburgh
You sound incredibly out of touch. It's entirely possible you really don't understand the need for good safeguarding protocols.

If I were you, id spend less time pontificating here and more time getting to understand modern parenting techniques, school safeguarding procedures and the necessity fir children to be involved in conversations surrounding their education and wellbeing, because frankly, you've just embarrassed yourself.

@Clymene "Why on earth you think you're in a position to opine on anything to do with safeguarding is baffling."

Oh. Because I was a minor child when I realised I am a lesbian. Because I did tell adults I trusted before I told my parents. Because my parents' reaction demonstrated I'd been absolutely right to come out to other people first. Because my peers - also school-aged children - have and had even worse reactions from their parents.

So, yes, I know something of what it would be like, if I'd confided in an adult I trusted, and the adult had very promptly gone to my parents and told them - six months or so before I was ready to tell them - "Hey, your daughter is a lesbian, she doesn't want to tell you, but you ought to know, she's not old enough to have secrets from you."

@EyeEdinburgh I’ve not seen anyone say the teacher should go directly to the parents - feel free to quote where that’s happened.

Yes people are rightly saying the school should tell parents, that it’s deceitful not to, that it undermines parent and child relationships, undermines parental rights, places the child at risk of grooming, breaches safeguarding legislation - none of which you’ve produced any evidence to refute. Indeed one one up thread has provided research evidencing harm done to children by social transitioning.

Your turn.

[quote EyeEdinburgh]@TurquoiseBaubles "No one is suggesting that a teacher, taken into confidence by a child about anything, would immediately go to the parents and repeat what the child said."

Actually, many, many people on this thread are not just suggesting, but strongly demanding, that if a child takes a teacher into their confidence about anything, the teacher should immediately go to the parents and repeat exactly what the child said. And asserting that it doesn't matter if the child learns by this that there are no trusted adults to confide in - it's "safeguarding", apparently, for the child to believe they should only confide to their friends.[/quote]
No they aren't. They are saying the school (not an individual teacher) should inform the parents. This would be done within the school's safeguarding framework.

I really hope you have no dealings with children

Every single time I have had reason to explain safeguarding to a child or anyone else, I have used the standard language 'I need you to know that if I have a concern, I will need to share it outside this room'. At no point do I ever add 'but only if you consent'. The question is not 'do you consent to me sharing information?' It is 'do you understand that I will share information?'

If you don't know that, you are clearly spreading misinformation about safeguarding and I hope any reader is crystal clear about that.

@CandyLeBonBon "and more time getting to understand modern parenting techniques"

From people who think it's appropriate to get angry with their children and teachers their children trust, if their children trust their teachers ahead of their parents?

That's not modern parenting techniques. That's Victoria Gillick parenting techniques.

[quote CandyLeBonBon]@EyeEdinburgh
You sound incredibly out of touch. It's entirely possible you really don't understand the need for good safeguarding protocols.

If I were you, id spend less time pontificating here and more time getting to understand modern parenting techniques, school safeguarding procedures and the necessity fir children to be involved in conversations surrounding their education and wellbeing, because frankly, you've just embarrassed yourself. [/quote]
Children can even participate in formal safeguarding meetings with social workers, police officers, teachers and others present.
That's why schools work partnership - with other professionals and with parents. We all have to hold the safety and welfare of the child at the centre of what we do and this only happens when there's openness, transparency and the issues can be named and spoken about.

[quote EyeEdinburgh]@Clymene "Why on earth you think you're in a position to opine on anything to do with safeguarding is baffling."

Oh. Because I was a minor child when I realised I am a lesbian. Because I did tell adults I trusted before I told my parents. Because my parents' reaction demonstrated I'd been absolutely right to come out to other people first. Because my peers - also school-aged children - have and had even worse reactions from their parents.

So, yes, I know something of what it would be like, if I'd confided in an adult I trusted, and the adult had very promptly gone to my parents and told them - six months or so before I was ready to tell them - "Hey, your daughter is a lesbian, she doesn't want to tell you, but you ought to know, she's not old enough to have secrets from you."[/quote]
You had an awful experience. I'm sorry that happened.

That doesn't qualify you position yourself as a safeguarding expert. You are projecting your experience on to this situation and assuming things are still as utterly awful as your own situation.

You should not have been treated the way you were. That doesn't mean safeguarding is something to flush down the shitter because your parents were homophobic.

@Jellycatspyjamas Thanks for confirming that you did see those angry posts saying the teachers should tell the parents and the child should find that they don't have any adults they can trust to talk about being trans to - even if you try to spin it claiming that they're saying something else.

My mother smacked me around with furniture when I came out.

I still know that safeguarding is vital.

[quote EyeEdinburgh]@CandyLeBonBon "and more time getting to understand modern parenting techniques"

From people who think it's appropriate to get angry with their children and teachers their children trust, if their children trust their teachers ahead of their parents?

That's not modern parenting techniques. That's Victoria Gillick parenting techniques.[/quote]
Who said anything about getting angry?