The use of the term 'trans widow'

[aibubaby]

I've found this term in poor taste ever since I saw it, and this article I've seen on Twitter is a great look at why.

rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

Marriages end all the time because one spouse isn't who the other thought they were. It's sad or heartbreaking or difficult, and people have (obviously) got the right to grieve for a relationship which is no longer the same. But it isn't a death and it's thoughtless to describe it as though it is.

They shouldn't.

I am pleased there's this space which does mean that we don't don't forget about the partners and children in our rush to be kind.

Yes, there is a lot of pressure to #BeKind but it is really worth resisting the urgency of this so that you can think things through.

I often read articles in the press of transitioners, and how their life was happily ever after. However, when I started to really think about the practicalities of how it would work if it happened to me in my life, the whole thing stopped adding up.

opalberry I'm sorry for your loss. I don't think you can be wrong for feeling however you feel and there's no berating here.

I don't give a shit if they call themselves transwidows. I don't give a shit if anyone is offended by it. How about being offended on their behalf by what their husbands are doing to them? Or, if you really can't muster up even a shred of empathy for these women, how about just fucking off entirely and leaving them alone? Sick to death of the endless bloody policing of how women express and describe themselves.

^^This.

@OpalBerry

I'm a widow and I don't like the use of it for all sorts of things but no doubt I'm wrong to feel that and will be berated for feeling like that.

Sorry for your loss.

The only person who has been berated (and mostly very patiently - no threats as usual) has been OP who admits she is not widowed and has no skin in the game either way.

There are plenty of things in the world I dislike due to personal reasons but know it would be manifestly unfair to police others on. Especially when the word/thing is linked to trauma.

#BeKind only seems to go one way- particularly when I'm getting death /rape/ arson threats on Twitter.

@TinselAngel

#BeKind only seems to go one way- particularly when I'm getting death /rape/ arson threats on Twitter.

Yes. Mil who is the absolute kindest woman ever to her own detriment hadn't even considered the wife's feelings.

Go easy on people who use it, or at least on some of them - not all are deliberately using the word to denigrate women, man are still finding their way in this mess of an issue.

Don't police my language or tell me how to think or feel and I won't do the same to you.

OP

I take it in good faith that you initiated this thread as a conversation starter. I believe you.

Your subsequent posts have been clear and often acknowledge ideas or experiences of which you were unaware.

I am firmly GC as it relates to biology but don’t think there’s anything wrong with challenging this forum/questioning this forum and its contributors.

On FWR there is often a plea for a rational debate. Your original post might not have made that clear, but your subsequent posts make it clear you were hoping for a conversation and other views.

I’m disappointed that some contributors have resorted to ideology and slogans rather than think about and answer the points raised. Isn’t this exactly GC feminists accuse TRAs of doing? It is.

They’re is so much anger and misunderstanding around this topic, as well as firmly, thoroughly researched and strongly held beliefs.

Finally, no, this is not a plea to “be kind.” (FUCK THAT) But it is a request to fucking listen, ask, evaluate, and possibly learn.

None of us is 100% right, ffs.

I'm an actual widow, I lost my DW July 2nd 2020. I'm not at all offended by 'trans widow' and get why women in this position use the term

The only person who has been berated (and mostly very patiently - no threats as usual) has been OP who admits she is not widowed and has no skin in the game either way.

Using the blog of a woman very recently bereaved in tragic circumstances to try to score points against a group of women recovering from intimate partner abuse does not demonstrate a great deal of insight into the nature of grief or empathy.

@Whoarethewho

Could a man say his wife leaving to be a lesbian be a lesbian widower?

No, because being trans and being same-sex attracted are two different issues.

To all trans widows and also to all children.

And tbh I'm so caught up in my own grieving process that I couldn't care less about the word 'widow' as although I technically am I don't really relate to the idea.

Joystir

@AlfonsoTheMango

Go easy on people who use it, or at least on some of them - not all are deliberately using the word to denigrate women, man are still finding their way in this mess of an issue.

Don't police my language or tell me how to think or feel and I won't do the same to you.

I didn't tell you how to think of feel. Not at all.

I didn't even attempt to police your language.

I am simply suggesting that many people who use the word "cis" are doing so out of a desire to be clear with their language in a world where they are constantly trying to be kind and tolerant and progressive and not transphobic. That tearing them a new one for their "crime" of using the word cis is - at best - deeply unhelpful.

I am not saying that you should let it slide - tell people why you don't like the word, and maybe they will be like me and realise that on balance it is better to use the words woman and trans-woman, not cis-woman and trans-woman.

I am saying slating people who are just trying to do the right thing can be quite unhelpful, when they could be future allies as they learn more.

Finally, no, this is not a plea to “be kind.” (FUCK THAT) But it is a request to fucking listen, ask, evaluate, and possibly learn.

I should learn from the OP how?

Jedi and Alfonso- are you on the wrong thread?

I accept that I posted something without knowledge of a community of relevant posters here and I accept that they might find that upsetting, and I apologised for speaking on behalf of all widows. I've taken on board comments posted and will - genuinely - read some of the resources posted here.

Good, and welcome to MN FWR (or S&G as per current naming).
Many of us have had our arses handed to us on our first posting here (my first post was a piece of ignorant whataboutery many years ago, can't remember what about).
But we live and, hopefully, learn.

OP, I'm curious how you came across the blog when you haven't heard of the term 'trans widow'. Or why you posted about it here when you weren't aware of the connection of the term with Mumsnet.

What do you like about the blog so much that you posted it here?

Rachel Moss writes ''Your children still have both parents.''
And that's just part of the problem, no they don't. He's off somewhere being his authentic self and far too busy for parenting. Or paying child support.

We could have told you about the issues if you had asked but you didn't. You jumped straight in, despite having no skin in the game. You aren't a widow, your partner isn't trans but here you are having a go at other women who are dealing with something outside of your experience.

Women here have listened, evaluated and learned for years now. Robust challenge is needed in the current climate.

I respect that what you’re saying comes from a good place but on balance in this space the onus to listen and learn should be firmly on the individual who’s decide to come in and start off by lecturing us about things they have little to no true understanding of (as far as I’m concerned, anyway).

@TinselAngel

God knows why they chose this of all topics to be a debate rather than a chat, I don't know.

I have asked them to move it back to Feminism Chat and they have refused.

Would it be worth asking them to move it to Relationships or is that a bad idea?

Would it be worth asking them to move it to Relationships or is that a bad idea?

They offered to do that but it's a worse idea IMO. The women on the Relationships board are great but many of them are still in "maybe he's depressed" or "it's just clothes, what's the big deal?" on this, and I won't have the trans widows subjected to that unecessarily.

Also, Trans Widows who Google "Mumsnet Trans Widows" because they've heard it's a friendly place for them, will now find this thread. So that's something else you've done, OP.

@OpalBerry of course you won’t be berated for how you feel.

I’m sorry for your loss.

I’m sorry, too, for the losses of other widows on this thread.