The use of the term 'trans widow'

[aibubaby]

I've found this term in poor taste ever since I saw it, and this article I've seen on Twitter is a great look at why.

rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

Marriages end all the time because one spouse isn't who the other thought they were. It's sad or heartbreaking or difficult, and people have (obviously) got the right to grieve for a relationship which is no longer the same. But it isn't a death and it's thoughtless to describe it as though it is.

ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

I don't give a shiny shit how trans Windows prefer to refer to themselves, or who it offends. They've been through enough. Unlike a spouse just becoming incompatible with them they aren't even supposed to acknowledge that the person they knew as their husband ever existed. They're supposed to pretend that they've always bewen called by a feminine name, and have all official documents altered to pretend that's the case. They're supposed to pretend that their husband is their wife, that they have always been married to a woman, that it makes no difference to their own lives, that they're actually happy about it. They get wheeled out in propaganda videos to exclaim through forced smiles how wonderful it is that their family now had two mummies. Their role is very clear - they are to support the fantasy at any cost to themselves. I think we all remember that BBC short film "when dad became Charlotte" or whatever it was called, where Charlotte was pictured whizzing around of Rollerskates demonstrating, of course, just how much of a woman she really was, with the kids running to keep up with her, and the "other" mum trudging along behind carrying all the bags and coats. I feel offended for her. This isn't just a case of "he changed, we grew apart", it's an extra cage placed around women who are usually already in very unhappy or even abusive marriages. And if they fail at any part of this, if they even hint that they are anything other than delighted and supportive, then they face ostracisation from their social group or even actual abuse on and offline.

I don't give a shit if they call themselves transwidows. I don't give a shit if anyone is offended by it. How about being offended on their behalf by what their husbands are doing to them? Or, if you really can't muster up even a shred of empathy for these women, how about just fucking off entirely and leaving them alone? Sick to death of the endless bloody policing of how women express and describe themselves.

100% this! Utterly sick of it.

I'm genuinely sorry for what you've been through

You don't need to feel sorry for me, it's water under the bridge, you need to feel sorry for all the other trans widows here, many of whom are still in abusive relationships, many of whom will have been lurking and thanking the universe that there is just one place on the internet where they are respected.

Feel sorry for all those women who you have made feel less safe here.

Just a thought op, maybe look into the stories posted upthread before commenting again.
Since you are 'innocent' and 'new to the debate' and here in good faith you won't mind actually acquainting yourself with the facts.

@MouseyTheVampireSlayer

Just a thought op, maybe look into the stories posted upthread before commenting again. Since you are 'innocent' and 'new to the debate' and here in good faith you won't mind actually acquainting yourself with the facts.

I will, and I appreciate posters who shared resources for me to look at.

@TinselAngel

I'm genuinely sorry for what you've been through

You don't need to feel sorry for me, it's water under the bridge, you need to feel sorry for all the other trans widows here, many of whom are still in abusive relationships, many of whom will have been lurking and thanking the universe that there is just one place on the internet where they are respected.

Feel sorry for all those women who you have made feel less safe here.

That very much wasn't my intention and I hope nobody reading this feels that way. It was a question about the turn of phrase, not about whether or not I had sympathy for women in that situation - of course I do.

Could a man say his wife leaving to be a lesbian be a lesbian widower?

@NewYearNewTwatName

I do find it weird that that means there's an unwritten rule that anything that popular or well-known posters might find upsetting shouldn't be posted here, however

Jesus christ, I was with you until this.

you.clearly.still.do.not.get.it. and are not sorry in the slightest.

it's not about A known poster, it's about group of Humanbeings that have been through a lot of shit and are now being harassed, given death threats, because they dare to talk to each other and support each other.

if you had made a mistake by posting here and after having it pointed out to you, then you would have left it with your apologies. but no you had then add that little bit at the end.

Fuck you, why don't you go and post a musing on black mumsnet poinficating something just as cruel about black peoples experiences. I'm sure they'd welcome you just as much as you have been welcomed here.

Yeah, I did add that on the end, because two people went 'oh no have you not heard of X?!' as though I'd not heard of Rihanna and I thought it was a bit stupid. If their actual point was 'people who describe themselves as trans widows might find this upsetting' then I'd understand their point, but that wasn't what they said.

I don't much care whether you were 'with me' or not. I accept that I posted something without knowledge of a community of relevant posters here and I accept that they might find that upsetting, and I apologised for speaking on behalf of all widows. I've taken on board comments posted and will - genuinely - read some of the resources posted here. But I had a question, and I posted it in the area of the site that questions like this are apparently allowed, and now I'm being told I'm a dickhead for doing so.

@Whoarethewho

Could a man say his wife leaving to be a lesbian be a lesbian widower?

No

Just as well nobody is asking the OP to decide what other people can think of their own situations then.

keep digging

But I had a question, and I posted it in the area of the site that questions like this are apparently allowed, and now I'm being told I'm a dickhead for doing so.

Your opening post was not phrased as a question, you asserted that you thought the word a group of women call themselves was in bad taste, when you now admit that you knew nothing of their situation.

Fine, we all make arses of ourselves, but to start blaming other women for having made an ill thought out post is ridiculous.

I actually don't blame OP for posting in ignorance. Many do. I hope she does go and read about what transwidows have been through and continue to be targeted for, including on this thread. Because any right thinking person must surely pause when they realize they're attacking abuse victims, unless they're a pretty shitty person themselves.

I do blame @MNHQ for putting the Transwidows support thread in the fucking debate section so that the women in these abusive situations are being dumped right in the middle of a shit storm of opinions, rather than the feminist support that they managed to receive before the 'reorganization'.

#BeKind
#ShutUpYouBadWomen
#WhateverDudes

Well I have to hand it to you op, if I'd realised I had just blundered into one of the very few forums that supports trans widows and spouted off on a topic about which I knew jack shit, I would be absolutely mortified, apologising unreservedly to Tinsel and the other trans widows on this thread, pleading with MNHQ to take the thread down and then running away to hide under the duvet.

And yet here you are still. Extraordinary.

But I had a question, and I posted it in the area of the site that questions like this are apparently allowed, and now I'm being told I'm a dickhead for doing so

Look again, there is no question in your OP.

@FloralBunting

I actually don't blame OP for posting in ignorance. Many do. I hope she does go and read about what transwidows have been through and continue to be targeted for, including on this thread. Because any right thinking person must surely pause when they realize they're attacking abuse victims, unless they're a pretty shitty person themselves.

I do blame @MNHQ for putting the Transwidows support thread in the fucking debate section so that the women in these abusive situations are being dumped right in the middle of a shit storm of opinions, rather than the feminist support that they managed to receive before the 'reorganization'.

#BeKind
#ShutUpYouBadWomen
#WhateverDudes

Yes, assuming the op really is ignorant of the issues, it would be good if this conversation allowed them to be a little more emphatic. I know in my rush to be kind I always, always would have prioritised a trans person. However, due to reading some of the transwidows testimonials when my mil has come across this breaking up a family I did ask how the wife and kids were. No one in the very kind and thoughtful church group had asked and I am pleased there's this space which does mean that we don't don't forget about the partners and children in our rush to be kind.

Yes. Just the last last three posts really.

4

I do blame @MNHQ for putting the Transwidows support thread in the fucking debate section so that the women in these abusive situations are being dumped right in the middle of a shit storm of opinions, rather than the feminist support that they managed to receive before the 'reorganization'.

God knows why they chose this of all topics to be a debate rather than a chat, I don't know.

They can come on this thread and explain. They will have this thread on their * list.

So will many other watchers.

I'm a widow and I don't like the use of it for all sorts of things but no doubt I'm wrong to feel that and will be berated for feeling like that.

Meanwhile, we are here to support trans widows.

That very much wasn't my intention and I hope nobody reading this feels that way. It was a question about the turn of phrase, not about whether or not I had sympathy for women in that situation - of course I do.

aibubaby you wrote with condescension in the OP,

Marriages end all the time because one spouse isn't who the other thought they were. It's sad or heartbreaking or difficult, and people have (obviously) got the right to grieve for a relationship which is no longer the same. But it isn't a death and it's thoughtless to describe it as though it is.

I suspect when/if you spend some time reading about the experiences of transwidows you will realise how inappropriate your judgement was.

God knows why they chose this of all topics to be a debate rather than a chat, I don't know.

I have asked them to move it back to Feminism Chat and they have refused.

But I had a question, and I posted it in the area of the site that questions like this are apparently allowed, and now I'm being told I'm a dickhead for doing so.

There is no question in the OP only statements of criticism and judgement,

I've found this term in poor taste ever since I saw it, and this article I've seen on Twitter is a great look at why.
But it isn't a death and it's thoughtless to describe it as though it is.

Why should women who are exiting abusive relationships and who post on FWR board of the Mumsnet site be seen as fair game for such attack?