The use of the term 'trans widow'

[aibubaby]

I've found this term in poor taste ever since I saw it, and this article I've seen on Twitter is a great look at why.

rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

Marriages end all the time because one spouse isn't who the other thought they were. It's sad or heartbreaking or difficult, and people have (obviously) got the right to grieve for a relationship which is no longer the same. But it isn't a death and it's thoughtless to describe it as though it is.

@AssassinatedBeauty

I think it's for the women involved to decide for themselves. It seems particularly absurd to object to this use of the word "widow" when the term is in very very widespread casual use for things like "golf widow", "football widow" and so on. In fact, to object to this one minor and very specific use would raise questions for me about your motivation.

Absolutely

You've never heard the term 'grass widow'? This isn't the 'humorous' 'golf widow' etc, it refers to discarded mistresses and divorcees etc .

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grass%20widow

Trans widows - as well-described by OneRing - have lost their spouse.

@cavernousscream I'm sorry for your loss but you can't claim you are speaking for "us actual widows" when so many don't mind. Personally I find the definition of woman as femininity far more offensive.

@PrawnofthePatriarchy

I am a widow. It took DH a year from diagnosis til death. In the end he lost consciousness in his favourite chair and died in the ambulance. Our DC were 7 and 10. So the whole tragic thing.

I know I can only speak for myself but I am perfectly happy that trans widows use the phrase for themselves. It's very apt, in that the man they married has gone forever.

I feel they have it much harder than I did. The betrayal, the creepy sex stuff, the lying. It's like a friend who broke up with her DH while mine was dying. Extreme DV, an affair with her best friend - my friend hasn't a single memory of her marriage that isn't tainted.

Me? Well my DH adored me and our DC. 17 good years. The last year of his life was the best of our marriage. All the petty squabbles disappeared. All that remained was love.

It's a long time ago now. My DC are in their twenties. And I still smile every time I think of him.

I think trans widows should feel free to use the phrase. It makes sense, it's descriptive of reality.

This brought tears to my eyes Prawn.

I feel very much for the writer of the article, but I think she has also vastly underestimated the change in dynamics, the hoops that these men makes their wives and children jump through. Telling children that they are no longer than Dad but their Mum. The re-writing of history, the erasing of anything that doesn't fit the NE narrative. Even though in the blog it is all about how brave he is, wanting to be his true self.

I feel for the writer of the blog, but don't diminish the experiences of TA and others who have shared their stories.

Try going on any forum for widows and see how many people actually don’t mind the co-option of the term

@ErrolTheDragon

You've never heard the term 'grass widow'? This isn't the 'humorous' 'golf widow' etc, it refers to discarded mistresses and divorcees etc .

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grass%20widow

Trans widows - as well-described by OneRing - have lost their spouse.

I hadn't heard that term, no.

I think it's a weird term, to be honest.

And I think 'golf widow' etc, while a bit off-colour, is meant to be semi-joking - it's obvious that they aren't trying to describe themselves as literally bereaved.

Whereas 'trans widow' appears to be more seriously used (as it's a more serious situation, of course) - that distinction I think it what I find a bit off about it.

I’m sorry for your loss, cavernousscream

And to 334 and prawn and waterbottle, too

@Needmoresleep

Isnt it for those who are affected to decide?

This

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to differ, OP. I find your criticism of trans widows 'a bit off'.

'Grass widow' (according to that link) dates back to 1699. It's perhaps become less used as society has become less judgmental of unmarried or divorced women.

Those who object, how should they refer to themselves then?

How would you suggest that could they refer to their reality in terms that wouldn’t offend you?

Because, to be honest, I’m not sensing a great deal of empathy for their plight, which I find a bit lacking in compassion. Why scold, when you could help?

It's just that I haven't seen any examples of that happening.

Funny that isn't it?

I have no issue with the term. I think it suits the situation perfectly as for all purposes in the spouses' life the person they married is dead to them.

Do you have a similar issue with that term, for example a person who hates their mother "she is dead to me"?

The dead naming thing does refer to the metaphorical 'death' of a person who is still alive and using a different name, I have more of a problem with that term tbh. No one died but it feels like they did, applies to both terms.

I don't give a shiny shit how trans Windows prefer to refer to themselves, or who it offends. They've been through enough. Unlike a spouse just becoming incompatible with them they aren't even supposed to acknowledge that the person they knew as their husband ever existed. They're supposed to pretend that they've always bewen called by a feminine name, and have all official documents altered to pretend that's the case. They're supposed to pretend that their husband is their wife, that they have always been married to a woman, that it makes no difference to their own lives, that they're actually happy about it. They get wheeled out in propaganda videos to exclaim through forced smiles how wonderful it is that their family now had two mummies. Their role is very clear - they are to support the fantasy at any cost to themselves. I think we all remember that BBC short film "when dad became Charlotte" or whatever it was called, where Charlotte was pictured whizzing around of Rollerskates demonstrating, of course, just how much of a woman she really was, with the kids running to keep up with her, and the "other" mum trudging along behind carrying all the bags and coats. I feel offended for her. This isn't just a case of "he changed, we grew apart", it's an extra cage placed around women who are usually already in very unhappy or even abusive marriages. And if they fail at any part of this, if they even hint that they are anything other than delighted and supportive, then they face ostracisation from their social group or even actual abuse on and offline.

I don't give a shit if they call themselves transwidows. I don't give a shit if anyone is offended by it. How about being offended on their behalf by what their husbands are doing to them? Or, if you really can't muster up even a shred of empathy for these women, how about just fucking off entirely and leaving them alone? Sick to death of the endless bloody policing of how women express and describe themselves.

This feels like kicking someone when they are down, to me.

Yes. It makes no sense to say “it’s the name that’s dead”. Words don’t die- things that are alive die. It’s very much meant to create the impression that the person/personality/persona who was named that is no longer around, and the new name signifies the new person, completely separate from the old.

Otherwise, the commonly used term “birth name” would have served perfectly well.

But it didn’t.

What a wonderful post @PrawnofthePatriarchy - I wish I knew you. You sound to have navigated the toughest times in life with admirable grace.

@Sophoclesthefox

Yes. It makes no sense to say “it’s the name that’s dead”. Words don’t die- things that are alive die. It’s very much meant to create the impression that the person/personality/persona who was named that is no longer around, and the new name signifies the new person, completely separate from the old.

Otherwise, the commonly used term “birth name” would have served perfectly well.

But it didn’t.

Dammit, slow posting again. My post here was about deadnaming and the metaphorical death from ohholyjesuss post.

This has already been discussed on these boards multiple times. Personally, I think its in poor taste to scold women whose partners have put them through the ringer because you don't like what they call themselves.

As for it not being used in a joking manner, well yes. If you read some of the threads, I think you'll find that most of their situations aren't in the least bit funny.

I'm very tired of seeing women having their language monitored for talking about even amongst ourselvesthe often very difficult and complex reality of our lives.

Also, as far as I know, trans widows are not actually insisting they should be able to join meetings of bereaved women claiming they share the same experience, are they? They are not insisting that everyone else call them "widows". They are not asking for their legal documents to be changed to include the term, are they?

I think the term is apt, and they need our support.

@CavernousScream

YES US ACTUAL WIDOWS DO ALSO OBJECT TO GOLF WIDOW, CYCLING WIDOW etc. For people obsessed with inflexible dictionary definitions of women, you’re not very understanding of why actual recently bereaved women whose spouse has actually died might object to the term ‘widow’ being co-opted, are you?

Hey, sorry for your loss, but remember to be kind...

I thought it was shitty article.

Coming along to stick the boot in further to these women meant the authors emotional manipulation was lost on me.

Maybe they should of included all the others like Golf widows, rugby widows the list is endless.

You would of thought deadnaming be more offensive!

Is 'dead name' really just about a name or is it about the death of a previous life? A name never had a life to lose.

@Sophoclesthefox

Those who object, how should they refer to themselves then?

How would you suggest that could they refer to their reality in terms that wouldn’t offend you?

Because, to be honest, I’m not sensing a great deal of empathy for their plight, which I find a bit lacking in compassion. Why scold, when you could help?

'Divorced'?

Of course I empathise. It must be utterly heartbreaking to find out the person you married isn't who you thought they were and I can only begin to imagine the soulsearching and looking back for signs etc. One of my closest friend's wife of 10 years left him recently after coming out as a lesbian and - while not exactly the same - he was absolutely gutted. Questioned their entire life together, questioned everything she'd ever told him, wondering if she'd been the whole time. It was, obviously, a gutwrenching time for him and we spent many hours supporting him through it as he came to terms with his life as it was now.

He was not, however, a widower, nor would he describe himself as such. I can have sincere empathy for someone whose life has been turned upside down and still question the way they describe it.

@BuffysBigSister

Also, as far as I know, trans widows are not actually insisting they should be able to join meetings of bereaved women claiming they share the same experience, are they? They are not insisting that everyone else call them "widows". They are not asking for their legal documents to be changed to include the term, are they?

Very, very good point.