The use of the term 'trans widow'

[aibubaby]

I've found this term in poor taste ever since I saw it, and this article I've seen on Twitter is a great look at why.

rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

Marriages end all the time because one spouse isn't who the other thought they were. It's sad or heartbreaking or difficult, and people have (obviously) got the right to grieve for a relationship which is no longer the same. But it isn't a death and it's thoughtless to describe it as though it is.

I think the emotional turmoil of being a trans widow is a very similar experience to actually being widowed. I have no issue with the use of the term. It's a good description. I say that as an actual widow.

Sophocles, do you research everyone who reads and uses a website before posting on it in case you upset anyone? A very cursory glance at literally any topic on here would suggest that isn't the case for most posters. I also don't base my posts on the internet on whether or not they'll offend 'well thought of' posters (are less well thought of posters fair game, or not?).

That said, as I just posted, some interesting points have been made and I think - like so many things - there are competing interests and opinions in this issue that make it hard to make a declaration one way or the other. Some widows - as in the article - are very upset by the term. Others, like in this thread, are not. I've no doubt there are people with trans spouses or ex spouses who don't refer to themselves as widows, just as there are those that do. I wasn't trying to get a decree banning the term, just thought it was an article worth sharing.

But, as someone who is neither a widow nor has a trans spouse, my opinion is - obviously - not the one that matters

It is very irritating when people decide to be offended on behalf of others. It minimises our experiences and makes things feel even worse when people decide for us how we feel, without even asking. So thank you for acknowledging that.

I note that it is again women who are receiving criticism for their language and not men.

Where is your criticism for the use of the word dead naming OP?

If you are married to someone who it is now stated is literally dead this is very different from a standard divorce.

Worse it is described as literal violence to reference by name the person you are actually and have been married to.

This isn't a situation that these women have chosen. I would suggest working on the language of the men who have put these women in this situation.

Once these men refer to their situations without reference to death there would be less similarities to widowhood.

You don’t know who one of main trans widows is, even though article mentioned mumsnet you still didn’t bother to look to see what they been discussing.

Is this one of those posts where just come to tell women off and expect them to shut up.

Seen some nasty comments on Twitter aimed at trans widows irony is from those who have co-opted use of woman.

@Erikrie

But, as someone who is neither a widow nor has a trans spouse, my opinion is - obviously - not the one that matters

It is very irritating when people decide to be offended on behalf of others. It minimises our experiences and makes things feel even worse when people decide for us how we feel, without even asking. So thank you for acknowledging that.

I apologise - absolutely my mistake for posting one person's experience in a way that suggested I thought it represented everyone's. I didn't mean to speak for 'actual' widows en masse, I was more agreeing with the article posted and that writer's feelings about it.

It's tricky in general to advocate for things you think are important when you don't have skin in the game, and it's important to acknowledge when your experience and opinion doesn't hold as much weight!

I think, as with most people, if it's not happening to you, you need to back off of having strong opinions that don't effect you.
Mainly you've just reminded me of the great cost of tinsel and others' bravery. I think she's absolutely wonderful for helping others in the situation and speaking out when she could just go for a quiet life.
Tinsel and the transwidows.
And I hope they move your support thread away from debate, as it definitely sends the wrong message.

I am a widow and I join with the other widows who support trans widows using that term. I became a widow in very tragic circumstances and with two young children. I do not want any sympathy but if I have the generosity of spirit to not care about how others use the term then I think we should accept that some will not like widow being used for anything other than after a death but also that some of us care very much about others suffering pain and loss at the end of a relationship however that occurs ❤ to all trans widows

@Kobayashi21

Yes, but it was rather stream of conciousness with little evident point.

I thought the point was clear. When adding a second word in front of an existing word you are creating a new (third) word. The new third word will have some points of similarity or comparison with the original word, but will be a new word with a new meanin distinct from the original word. And, importantly, the original word won't have had it's meaning changed or appropriated.

@SweetPetrichor don't you think that a marriage and a relationship breakup is about both parties?? So it is all about them, as much as it's about the other party.

@Wallpapering

You don’t know who one of main trans widows is, even though article mentioned mumsnet you still didn’t bother to look to see what they been discussing.

Is this one of those posts where just come to tell women off and expect them to shut up.

Seen some nasty comments on Twitter aimed at trans widows irony is from those who have co-opted use of woman.

No, I don't know who one of the 'main trans widows' is - I wasn't aware there were levels of seniority in these things. I also don't think you should have to know every person in a particular scenario before you're allowed an opinion on it, tbh. I've accepted that both the view I shared clearly isn't universal amongst people whose spouses have died, and that my opinion isn't the most important in this matter (not that I thought it was!).

But you're the second person who's chided me for not knowing who some poster on here is, which I find very odd. I very rarely pay attention to usernames on here - hence why I'm using a namechange I made months ago about something completely unrelated. And unless they have a hilarious story about someone stealing their holiday home I'm very unlikely to follow a particular poster's story.

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@SweetPetrichor don't you think that a marriage and a relationship breakup is about both parties?? So it is all about them, as much as it's about the other party.[/quote]
Yeah, it is about both parties, but if I ended my relationship - a mutual agreement by both parties - I wouldn’t go around saying I was a widow, would I. That’s be weird. I’d say that we chose to go out separate ways.

The term trans widow is just a gross symbol of people’s desire to be the centre of attention.

It's an accurate description of the overwhelming sense of loss that both widows and trans widows go through. Your comment and lack of understanding is gross.

Another actual widow with no issues about the use of trans widow to describe the ghastly situation these women are placed in, over which they have no control.

Oh, and someone needs to tell Moss that grief is not a competition.

I'd recommend reading the Trans Widows threads to see how horrendously some of them have been treated. Funnily enough, their lived experiences are not front and centre in this brave new world.

it’s not a ‘death’…I’m not a widow. The person is still there. The person you love is still there

But they aren't, that's the point. You don't get it.

aibubaby

TinselAngel started and has managed a support thread in FWRchat for women affected by their husband/male partner's transition over recent years. It has, I understand, been a lifeline for many isolated women.

This has been one of the only places where women could support each other and share their experiences. From such humble beginnings this support group has grown to host a website, provide evidence to Women and Equalities Committee and most recently feature in the Telegraph. All the time conscious-raising.

That recent article in The Telegraph (below) prompted a surge in abuse via Twitter towards TinselAngel as well as the article you decided to bring here to back up your opinion about how a group of women may chose to identify their shared experiences of intimate partner abuse. You may be unaware of the widespread attempts to remove the spousal exit clause from the Gender Recognition Act legislation and the significant risk this exposes some women to.

''Trans widows' fear being trapped in loveless marriages if gender law changes
Activists want ministers to scrap an agreement that allows women to exit a heterosexual marriage before it legally becomes homosexual'
(extract)
"Activists are asking ministers to ditch the requirement for a spouse's agreement, a clause that some women say is a lifeline for them if their husband transitions to female.

It allows them to exit a heterosexual marriage before it legally becomes homosexual, or get an annulment for those who cannot divorce for cultural reasons.

The Telegraph has spoken to women who left their male partners when they came out as trans women, sometimes overnight, describing in powerful testimonies how their other half became unrecognisable." (continues)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/20/trans-widows-fear-trapped-loveless-marriages-gender-law-changes/

Yeah, it is about both parties, but if I ended my relationship - a mutual agreement by both parties - I wouldn’t go around saying I was a widow, would I. That’s be weird. I’d say that we chose to go out separate ways.

No, relationships don't always end mutually. Divorces aren't always (or even often) agreed mutually, they go to court and there is a petitioner and a respondent. This is about a situation where women have been married, often for decades, and the end of the relationship comes out of the blue. Not only that, but they are told that the person that they were in a relationship doesn't exist any more and essentially never existed. Meaning the whole relationship was a deception and a false relationship. They have to agree to this, or face being accused of transphobia and hate. This continues during the lengthy process of separation and divorce, and then continues through contact with children if there are any.

But it's not just a break up, it's not an affair, it's a complete change of the person - a woman married a man, and no longer has a husband, but potentially a 'wife'.

The husband has gone, is no more, not to death, but to 'trans'

And it's quite clear where your sympathy lies OP.

People are allowed to call themselves what they want, or, ' identify' as they wish are they not? Or is that another privilege that doesn't apply to women?

Thank you RO you can always be relied upon to come up with the argument I'm into stars today

Oh dear, so many people being offended on behalf of someone else .

And so many people stating that it is ok for someone born male require others to call them themselves women, mums, etc and report them for hate crimes if they don’t whereas women are not allowed to chose what to call themselves.

I am just wondering here… jedi makes a going point, trans + widow makes a new word. Nobody has suggested that trans widows are actual widows. Do all you who complain about this believe that trans widows at some point will claim to be actual widows and try to attend support groups? As I assume that most of you believe that transwomen are women and entitled to single sex spaces…?

I despise the term cis woman. A term applied to me without regard to my feelings.

Trans widow is an accepted term and everyone knows exactly what it means. I don't understand your point trying to differentiate it from dead naming, except that the widow is the victim rather than the trans person.

You cannot go through life believing that your actions do not have an impact on others, no matter the depth of your own struggle. Pain and suffering is not a competition. Nobody wins.

I would recommend that people affected by the term seek counselling and/or accept it as I have been forced to do.

This was Amanda Knox’s take a few days ago:

mobile.twitter.com/MavenOfMayhem/status/1407033848911777794

"Trans widow" is a horrible term that is used by some resentful cis women whose ex-partners came out as trans during the relationship

“Resentful” .

The same theme runs through the article in the OP. The grieving author thinks trans widows are just resentful women who could make their marriages work if they wanted to, they’re just as responsible for what happens she says, people change, marriage is about long term commitment etc. But it’s clear she holds these women in contempt: the sarcastic dig at finding support on Mumsnet, the notion that the only reason they think the way they do is because of external influences encouraging them to think their is a “malignant trans cabal” at play rather than being grown women who have their own thoughts as examples.

It reads like she is all about and has always been about “acceptance without exception” and her grief has her hyper-focused on the word widow. And it’s quite clear from looking at her Twitter feed that she is very much TWAW, calling people transphobes, dismissive of experiences etc.

mobile.twitter.com/menysnoweballes/with_replies

The article in the OP seems to come more strongly from a place of contempt for “gender crits”, as she calls people, than it does from the place of a widow. In my opinion of course.

I’ve been widowed for 30 years - my adored DH died young - and I have no objection at all to transwidows using that term for themselves. The man they married refers to his own male existence as a “deadname” after all.