The use of the term 'trans widow'

[aibubaby]

I've found this term in poor taste ever since I saw it, and this article I've seen on Twitter is a great look at why.

rachelemoss.com/2021/06/24/a-letter-to-trans-widows-from-an-actual-widow/

Marriages end all the time because one spouse isn't who the other thought they were. It's sad or heartbreaking or difficult, and people have (obviously) got the right to grieve for a relationship which is no longer the same. But it isn't a death and it's thoughtless to describe it as though it is.

Hmm. I don't see much empathy in the death threats and sexual violence threats received by a transwidow following recent media reporting. Nor can anyone show me a death threat or sexual violence threat made by a GC person anywhere.
Spot on about ambiguous grief. And interesting in an age where some people are to be granted free rein on self-definition however offensive others find it ('woman', 'mother's, 'cis') yet that doesn't apply to women in this situation who experience a disappearance of the person they knew, without recognition, ritual or support. I don't think you know what it's like until it happens to you, much like loss by bodily death. Maybe a bit of empathy could be shown on both sides?

@Leahcar65

Thank god someone had the sense to say this. Also there's a marked difference between golf widow and trans widow. Those that refer to themselves as golf widows don't actually consider their partners to be dead.

Obviously if you partner comes out as trans that may well be a shock and you're well within your right to end the relationship, you're allowed to dislike or even hate them because there's no monopoly on emotions. No one will judge you for saying you miss the person they were before, that's allowed. Calling yourself a trans widow, acting as if your ex is dead and comparing yourself to people whose partners have died (and in some instances saying you have it worse) is just so unnecessarily cruel. No on is asking the ex partners of trans people not to grieve, they're asking them to have some empathy, and a lesson in empathy might go a long way for people who are GC.

Funny isn't it, that trans people have always used the term 'dead name', have talked about how offensive it is to use a 'dead name' because the person that name is attached to is now 'dead' and its too triggering to bring it up blah blah blah. But when women use a term of the same level to describe themselves and how they feel, then that is disgusting and appropriation.....

Is this another one of those 'oh we didn't mean it like that obviously, it clearly doesn't mean the thing that we have been banging on for years that it means, you are so stupid' things? There are more and more of these springing up in trans ideology aren't there?

"Also there's a marked difference between golf widow and trans widow. Those that refer to themselves as golf widows don't actually consider their partners to be dead."

That's, er, not a marked difference. Transwidows don't declare their partners actually physically dead either.

And yes, "we never MEANT born in the wrong body, it was a metaphor" was a particular treasure from Mermaids as I recall.

Some of our ex husbands celebrate the anniversary of their coming out as a birthday.

@Vanishun

"Also there's a marked difference between golf widow and trans widow. Those that refer to themselves as golf widows don't actually consider their partners to be dead."

That's, er, not a marked difference. Transwidows don't declare their partners actually physically dead either.

Transpeople often consider their old selves to be dead. So, yes, transwidow is an appropriate term.

Leahcar, your post does not demonstrate either a clear understanding of the GRA or familiarity with the concept of 'dead naming'.

Any right to empathy must surely depend on the circumstances of a given situation, so it's odd to expect empathy from a group of people whose individual circumstances you cannot possibly understand.

Sorry I'm not really sure what your point is here. You've linked to a story about a woman who escaped an incredibly abusive relationship, I don't know how the relates to people in non abusive relationships co-opting the term widow to describe their divorce.

I don't know how the relates to people in non abusive relationships co-opting the term widow to describe their divorce.

relevant thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

@Leahcar65

Sorry I'm not really sure what your point is here. You've linked to a story about a woman who escaped an incredibly abusive relationship, I don't know how the relates to people in non abusive relationships co-opting the term widow to describe their divorce.

So it's ok for women in abusive relationships with transitioners to use the term "trans widow"?

there is a penny, it may drop.

but maybe it won't............

I don't know how the relates to people in non abusive relationships co-opting the term widow to describe their divorce.

I think you are a bit confused about the changes Stonewall are suggesting and what 'trans widow' means.

Stonewall want to make it possible to change the terms of somebody's marriage, without their agreement.

And 'trans widows' don't want to stay married to somebody against that person's wishes (as offensively suggested by Stonewall).

They just want some control over the way the marriage ends.

I think it is up to those wives to describe themselves. It seems a good term and it it helps to have a group term to share experiences. It has rely opened my eyes to the pain these 'widows' feel.

Co-opting the words ‘woman,’ ‘wife’ and ‘mother’ doesn’t ever seem to be an issue for the people who love to lecture, does it...

Why is that? Might it have something to do with the rules of Misogyny?

Women Are Human article,
'These Chains That Have No Name: Interview with Trans Widows Voices' By Donovan Cleckley -March 31, 2021

(extract)
When I have seen narratives from women, who could be called ‘trans widows,’ even if they might not call themselves that, one characteristic among them that I have noticed has been a consistent sense of isolation. Aside from being wives, many of these women are mothers who, with their children, begin feeling as if imprisoned by their husbands’ identities as ‘women.’ As seen in your story, what might have seemed to be, at first, a loving marriage between man and woman comes to feel as though a cage. Given both your own experiences and those of other women whose stories you have seen, what would you say about this dynamic between husbands and wives?

I know that I felt very isolated during my marriage. Being your husband’s secret keeper and sharing his ‘closet’ is claustrophobic. When my ex-husband started to think about leaving the closet, he quickly gained a Greek chorus of online supporters cheering on his progress toward transition. I had nobody until very late on when I told my best friends.

I didn’t find any groups or support networks for trans widows, indeed that name didn’t exist back then. The only thing I found was the Women of the Beaumont Society (WOBS), and this seemed to consist of older women putting up with teeth grindingly miserable relationships with crossdressers – or younger women in what I now know to be abusive relationships with autogynephilic men. I didn’t relate to either of these.

After I had left the marriage and begun to reflect, this is what motivated me to start connecting with other trans widows on Mumsnet and what motivated me to start Trans Widows Voices. I passionately believe that women should not feel like they are on their own when they are in that situation. I also realized that nobody was going to step up and help us – we have to make connections and help ourselves and each other." (continues)

www.womenarehuman.com/these-chains-that-have-no-name-interview-with-trans-widows-voices/

@Ninkanink

Co-opting the words ‘woman,’ ‘wife’ and ‘mother’ doesn’t ever seem to be an issue for the people who love to lecture, does it...

Why is that? Might it have something to do with the rules of Misogyny?

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

Thanks For the quote R0, I'm more articulate when I'm not really fucking angry

Tinsel You are always articulate, including when rightly angry.

Those acting as 'flying monkeys' and attacking women speaking out about intimate partner abuse will be either naive or toxic. Its a common pattern of behaviour,

medium.com/@OwnYourReality/flying-monkeys-the-narcissists-tool-for-the-smear-campaign-798daf7a59c0

I’m really angry on your behalf too, @TinselAngel (and others).

This is just so wrong on so many levels.

I think it's a satisfying luxury belief for the flying monkeys to have. They get to virtue signal to their heart's content over something they feel will never happen to them.

We all thought it would never happen to us.

@BuffysBigSister

Also, as far as I know, trans widows are not actually insisting they should be able to join meetings of bereaved women claiming they share the same experience, are they? They are not insisting that everyone else call them "widows". They are not asking for their legal documents to be changed to include the term, are they?

Excellent point.

Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

A little know aspect of Stonelaw seems to be that sexuality is related to gender, not sex, except for wives who it is assumed will change their own sexuality in line with the gender of their partner. (The Married Women's property Act of 1882 did not cover ownership of sexuality, so presumably we have to assume it passes into male ownership).

I don't know how the relates to people in non abusive relationships co-opting the term widow to describe their divorce.

I see that many people really do believe the propaganda style pieces published and simply not ever wondered about where the rest of the family's voices were. I guess if you have such a superficial knowledge of it all, and have also believed that any discuss around this topic must only come from hate (as it is also described by those publishing only positive affirming articles) it may never cross your mind.

After all, lobby groups have worked tirelessly to remove any mental health connected to dysphoria and now removing dysphoria even from transitioning.....

Do people think, oh! obviously when I read the transwidow accounts that have been silenced so long, what other things may not be quite as everyone perpetuating these only affirming stories would have us believe?

or has the propaganda bus selling mythical happy endings, and framing 'haters' as those being not be in full support or those that discuss any negative aspects, been so successful....

Having read the Trans Widows threads I think that is a fairly mild term given what they’ve been through.