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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transphobic hate crime

132 replies

ANewCreation · 25/06/2021 11:21

primetimezone.com/world/im-trans-portuguese-young-man-assaulted-in-england-for-being-transsexual/

This is a violent, transphobic hate crime and I utterly condemn these men who attacked 21 year old Ruan Filipe in Bournemouth earlier this month.

OP posts:
WanderinWomb · 25/06/2021 13:55

@IAmAWomanNotACis

"I do wish people wouldn't bite. Or quote their disgusting posts."

It's a fair cop. Stepping away from the internet for a bit. Flowers

I think it is worth having a record of what we have to put up with here.

I think one reply is deserved and fair enough. I'm just anti when they engage us for hours and people waste thousands and thousands of words on them.

JemimaTab · 25/06/2021 14:01

I am pretty cynical about the police, but even leaving aside the hate-crime aspect, I find it hard to believe that they would not investigate further when they are told about a group of men carrying knives. Where I live (big city, not Bournemouth) the police take knife crime very seriously indeed and I’m pretty certain would follow this up. For example, I’ve seen them tweet for further info and to warn the public when there have been incidents with knives/groups of young men. I think something has got lost in translation here, possibly.

WanderinWomb · 25/06/2021 14:05

@Bryonyshcmyony

Not surprising this didn't make the national news, sadly attacks like this happen in every town , every night

I am amazed it didn't make the local news.

Things make the local news if people report them to journalists.

This was a Portuguese social media post that was picked up and then reported by Pink News because they just Google to find trans stories.

Local news in any city would just be full of attempted muggings every single day if all made the press.

If Ruan contacted the Echo themself then would be a better chance they'd cover it.

WanderinWomb · 25/06/2021 14:06

Not even every murder makes local news.

IAmAWomanNotACis · 25/06/2021 14:14

Also for the record:

Male on male violence is highly common.

Male on female violence is highly common.

Male on trans violence I don't feel confident in saying how common or uncommon it is but funny how all the incidents I've ever heard of have been perpetrated by men.

It's almost as if men are the problem.

Coyoacan · 25/06/2021 14:19

It does sound like the police simply couldn't be arsed.

What did police do before the existence of CCTV cameras?

@334bu I hadn't thought of a homophobic attack, but yes, that is probably what it started out as.

I just thought bog-standard rape. It reminded of one time in my youth when I was attacked by a group of men and nearly raped, though fortunately no knives were involved.

In other words, the mentaliy of these men is that if transmen think they are going to be safer now that they have a beard, they are going to teach them that they are still exposed to the dangers of being a woman.

JediGnot · 25/06/2021 14:24

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Looking at the pictures I think this young person is very very lucky. The knife wounds to their face look like scratches which should hopefully heal quickly. I have seen far, far worse working with young people.
I couldn't help notice the same thing, plus lack of witnesses, that ruan's an artist with an instagram and tiktok... I am not saying I don't believe that it happened, or that I don't believe it happened as stated. I'm not saying that attacks on trans people never happen. I am saying that I'd like to be forgiven for being glad that it makes no difference whether I believe ruan or not.
Bryonyshcmyony · 25/06/2021 14:24

@WanderinWomb

Not even every murder makes local news.
It does in Bournemouth!
Minezatea · 25/06/2021 14:34

What role do you think the constant anti-trans rhetoric of "gender critical" feminists played in this attack?

Gender critical feminists are not anti-trans. If you think that, you've not really been listening.

Awful attack. Poor man. Society really does need to do something about male violence.

JemimaTab · 25/06/2021 15:33

Those cuts do look fairly superficial, and luckily they weren’t close to e.g. the eyes. It could have been so much worse, given that the perpetrators were carrying knives.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 25/06/2021 16:04

The whole thing is odd. 🤔

JediGnot · 25/06/2021 16:19

@Whatsnewpussyhat

The whole thing is odd. 🤔
Agreed.

The one thing that isn't odd is the implication that the police couldn't be arsed.

In my experience, based on a couple of relatively trivial crimes, the police's attitude is often pretty much

"Can we please take the name, number and address of the criminal, as well as their current whereabouts? We also require fingerprints, CCTV evidence of the event and back up photographs from alternative angles to make sure that the CCTV evidence isn't misleading in any way."

"Sorry Mr Policeman, I don't have all of that information - I came to you in the hope that you would investigate, help keep criminals off the streets and fight for justice for me".

"No No Mr Victim - you misunderstand. We are here to complete the administrative process relating to crimes that the victim has solved and evidenced themselves. If you haven't solved the crime or you don't have the evidence then you really are wasting our time. Why the hell did you call us?"

ANewCreation · 25/06/2021 16:48

I'm not sure why the OP posted this in feminism as it appears to be a homophobic anti-trans crime so perhaps LGBT section would have been more appropriate.

Why am I posting the story here?

I unreservedly condemn these men in Bournemouth who have carried out what appears to be a violent, transphobic, hate crime. I don't actually believe there is one feminist who wouldn't condemn it.

But the problem, let's name it again, is male violence.

This is not a crime caused, in some way, by 'gender critical feminists' as we had immediately flung at us on page 1 of the thread.

I have seen variously JKR and Graham Linehan and feminist groups directly blamed for it on TRA twitter. Also of creating a climate of hostility. And here on page 1 we had one of the fastest Godwin's ever.

We have no blood on our hands. The men who carried it out do.

That the Bournemouth thugs have been watching "the mess we're in" or reading JKR's thoughtful essay describing her own experience of domestic abuse and decided to attack is bunkum. Nor do I imagine they have been engaging with Janice Turner's ideas in The Times or been 'turned' by Jane Clare Jones on twitter.

We know that to be pro-women and girls is not to be "anti trans". Again, we have been accused of this on the thread. This is a false equivalence. I wanted people on this board to be aware of the story so there is tangible evidence for those who paint us as 'anti trans' that no, we absolutely, unequivocally, condemn literal violence against trans people.

Again, let's say it again though, it is male violence. Violence that is dangerously endemic in our towns and cities, in our schools and in our homes.

This is why we want to keep our 'female only' spaces 'only female'.

The story hasn't, however, made the mainstream media. What might be the reasons?

Maybe the story is too muddled, maybe the language barrier has created an issue, maybe there is more to the story than meets the eye and we are not getting the full picture.

But if there are structural problems whereby we are not hearing in the MSM about cases of literal transphobic violence but are being led into thinking that 'misgendering' and 'adult human female' stickers and 'hateful haberdashery' are as bad as the transphobic 'hate crime' usually gets, (in which case, stop allowing yourself to be so permanently offended and develop some resilience, people!) then that also is a problem.

I am really concerned about the increasing number of reports of men getting away with appalling violence against women and girls and the difficulties there seem to be in getting convictions. Women are feeling that they can't report or won't be believed or it will make no difference. This case possibly reflects this.

So, even if we were to find out down the line that the reasons why the story seems a little 'off' are actually because the story is a bit 'off', I want to believe Ruan. I don't want there to be a 'boy who cried wolf' element to the reporting of serious hate crime.

(And finally, though Ruan would no doubt strongly disagree, I personally believe that sex is immutable so, in my mind, this is a case of MVAWG and belongs firmly on the feminist sex and gender board)

OP posts:
MadameKali · 25/06/2021 18:20

Bloody thuggish men coming onto Mumsnet and reading the whatever this board is called now and going out attacking people. When will GC women learn that the men are listening to what we say? Hmm

When will anything actually become the fault of thuggish men and their behaviour and not women standing up for women's rights?

(Can't quote the blamey post as it's been rightfully deleted. But I see it in others responses)

teawamutu · 25/06/2021 18:59

@yourhairiswinterfire

What role do you think the constant anti-trans rhetoric of "gender critical" feminists played in this attack?

Yeah, I'm sure thuggish men like this are hanging out on Mumsnet to get their fill of gender critical feminism before going out and committing violent acts Hmm

Maybe if more time and effort was spent acknowledging real transphobia and male violence instead of policing women for wrong think and putting up ribbons, we might fucking get somewhere.

Well, quite. The big blokes are never the ones that get berated, are they?

Is there an equivalent thread in, eg, Pistonheads?

NiceGerbil · 25/06/2021 19:26

Christ almighty.

The fact the men pulled up and said get in the car... Were armed and ready to commit awful violence...

This is a very very dangerous group of men. What did they have planned for their victim if they had got in the car? Nothing good that's for sure.

The police aren't interested? As much as I think the police in my area are shit.

This is Bournemouth. I don't know the knife crime stats there but I'm thinking they can't be like London. I can't believe that they aren't interested in the attempt to get the person to go with them (why?), the fact they were armed and ready to commit such a violent assault. That's utterly shocking.

NiceGerbil · 25/06/2021 19:29

Can anyone find any more info on this? Google is failing me

NiceGerbil · 25/06/2021 19:30

Have the local police issued a warning about these men, description of the car?

What did they want with the victim in the first place?

My experience with men pulling up and saying get in the car is get the fuck out of Dodge ASAP

NiceGerbil · 25/06/2021 19:48

Tried a different search term

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/districts/boscombe/19400668.trans-man-allegedly-attacked-knife-bournemouth/

' The force said they had no record of such incident being reported to them to date.

Dorset Police Chief Superintendent Mark Callaghan said: "We are aware of information circulating on social media and in one media outlet about a possible incident that may have occurred in Bournemouth on Friday, June 18, 2021.

“Officers have looked into the information available and have not been able to find a record of such an incident.

“We will be actively seeking to engage with the victim to ensure a thorough investigation and the necessary support is provided.

"We would encourage any victims of hate crime or assaults to please come forward and report it to Dorset Police.'

NiceGerbil · 25/06/2021 19:49

@ANewCreation

Hi OP

What's your take on that statement from Bournemouth police?

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 25/06/2021 19:51

What role do you think the constant anti-trans rhetoric of "gender critical" feminists played in this attack?

Have you washed the blood off your hands yet?

Ah yes, because men always listen to women, especially feminists, and do exactly as they say....... Hmm

RagzReturnsRebooted · 25/06/2021 19:54

My sister is a trans man and has suffered transphobic abuse/attacks in public recently. It's appalling and had nothing to do with gender ideology, it was men being abusive arseholes to someone they felt they could attack.
Pisses me off that I (and my sister!) get called transphobic for having certain views, like male bodied people not being in women's prison, sports etc

Erikrie · 25/06/2021 20:01

That's weird. So they went to the police, but the police have no record of it. Hopefully the police will be in touch with them now then to get more information 👍

WoolOfBat · 25/06/2021 20:02

Who here thinks that men listen to women?? I agree with a PP who stated that the thugs who did this are unlikely to have accessed the finer points of GC theory.

This is a horrific crime if it is as reported. Nobody here disagrees. However, there is so much male violence out there that it is drowned out.

Why is there not more discussion about this? Why is there not more discussion about the 12 year old girl who was raped and then committed suicide? Male violence is horrific and it is everywhere. And the police doesn’t seem to be that interested.

Meanwhile, women are being chased by the police for putting up ribbons in the wrong colours Confused

JemimaTab · 25/06/2021 20:09

@NiceGerbil

Tried a different search term

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/districts/boscombe/19400668.trans-man-allegedly-attacked-knife-bournemouth/

' The force said they had no record of such incident being reported to them to date.

Dorset Police Chief Superintendent Mark Callaghan said: "We are aware of information circulating on social media and in one media outlet about a possible incident that may have occurred in Bournemouth on Friday, June 18, 2021.

“Officers have looked into the information available and have not been able to find a record of such an incident.

“We will be actively seeking to engage with the victim to ensure a thorough investigation and the necessary support is provided.

"We would encourage any victims of hate crime or assaults to please come forward and report it to Dorset Police.'

I think the police would get a lot of grief (rightly so) if they were made aware of a group of men, roaming the streets, armed with knives and attacking people (any people), and just ignored it. This is the kind of thing they’d normally put out a warning to the public about, and appeal for information, even if just on Twitter. Either there’s been an almighty cock-up, or this genuinely wasn’t reported to them.