GC protected belief and use of cis

[OffYouGoNow]

Now that gender critical beliefs are classed as a protected belief, can we argue that the use of ‘cis’ ‘cis women’ etc. - particularly in the workplace - constitute as harassment?

'Cis' effectively insists that gender stereotypes are real and that they're natural for most women.
I believe strongly in free speech and if people want to believe that, they are free to do so. If people want to bang on about 'cis' outside of work, that's their right, the same as they're welcome to believe in other nonsense like surrendered wives and the like.
However, sex is a protected characteristic and something as deeply sexist as 'cis' has no place being integrated into workplace policies.
I would find it deeply concerning that a company was officially integrating gender stereotyping into how it treated its employees and how it expected them to behave.

I was wondering also about this in this weeks BBC's article about Quinn, a Canadian non-binary footballer:

"Most people, unless they're non-binary, have a gender identity of male or female."

@GrownUpBeans

I was wondering also about this in this weeks BBC's article about Quinn, a Canadian non-binary footballer:

"Most people, unless they're non-binary, have a gender identity of male or female."

I read this earlier too and did a double take.

Most people if pushed are probably agender. Not many of us fully and wholly subscribe to the characteristics ascribed to our sex and probably mostly consider ourselves to be non binary or agender but within a female or male body.

Personally I have no issue with the term cis. I have friends who identify as such, and that is their perogative.

What I do have issue with is:

• the assumption some one is cis unless they have explicitly identified as such
• the concept cis plus trans women make the entire population of women (irrespective of whether TWAW)

(Ie I have an issue with most uses of it)

I have come to the conclusion gender identity is a real thing for some people. I still don't understand what relevance it is beyond certain social situations , but would appreciate if those to whom its real do not assume the gender identity of the silent majority.

So in the case in point, I would either ignore the intranet directives for cis women, or more likely, be offended that I was having an implied gender identity forced upon me.

The thing that I have a real problem with about this, that others have mentioned.

Following prevailing 'rules'

Gender ID is in your brain
You can't tell by looking at someone what their gender is as gender presentation is separate
Misgendering is hurtful and possibly abusive

And yet women are deemed cis without being asked. With no consideration that many women and girls may not be cis (putting aside the large number who don't have one/ think the whole thing is bizarre)

So why are women and girls assumed to be cis if they don't declare a trans ID/ change their pronouns etc?

That's assigning a gender and that is not ok.

For me, cis and trans labels are typically used in work place discussions when gender labels aren't relevant to the topic of discussion. Typically, this is when the discussion relates to sex and sexed bodies. Here, 'cis' is used to refer to the persons natal sex and 'trans' is used to refer to 'not their natal sex'

In these situation I just ask about the relevance of people's gender to the discussion and suggest we don't categorise where it isn't needed.

@Threadbaretoe

For me, cis and trans labels are typically used in work place discussions when gender labels aren't relevant to the topic of discussion. Typically, this is when the discussion relates to sex and sexed bodies. Here, 'cis' is used to refer to the persons natal sex and 'trans' is used to refer to 'not their natal sex'

In these situation I just ask about the relevance of people's gender to the discussion and suggest we don't categorise where it isn't needed.

exactly - call all women "women" and when you need to differentiate between cis and trans, use cis and trans. As a biologist, I've never understood the fuss about "cis" tbh. It just makes the discussion easier, where differentiation is needed.

As a biologist, I've never understood the fuss about "cis" tbh. It just makes the discussion easier, where differentiation is needed.

Because a fair amount of the discussion tends to be occurring in a health or social care, social or political space where the nuanced introduction of cis and trans may be:
unclear at best for people with the average literacy level of a UK adult; at worst, and depending on the context, interpreted as dehumanising or a conscious attempt to exclude some people from the discussion;
a presupposition of one's stance on the matter of gender ideology.

As a biologist, I've never understood the fuss about "cis" tbh. It just makes the discussion easier, where differentiation is needed.

I don't think differentiation is possible, because the trans umbrella is so large. I think it's use can only indicate adherence to an ideology.

As s biologist , surely you know the difference between sex and the social construct that is gender identity? When talking about sex the use of " cis" is totally redundant as someone is either make it female , no matter how they may present.

Make it? male or..

@334bu

As s biologist , surely you know the difference between sex and the social construct that is gender identity? When talking about sex the use of " cis" is totally redundant as someone is either make it female , no matter how they may present.

In discussions, I have been asked "so do you identify as a woman?"

If I answer: "I am a cis woman" things are clear. If I answer "I am a woman" ppl might still think I am trans (as indicated by their original question).

If I answer: "I am a cis woman" things are clear. If I answer "I am a woman" ppl might still think I am trans (as indicated by their original question).

So? If TWAW why would you care?

- the concept cis plus trans women make the entire population of women (irrespective of whether TWAW)

Indeed. It's an ideological belief I do not share.

If I answer: "I am a cis woman" things are clear. If I answer "I am a woman" ppl might still think I am trans (as indicated by their original question).

But what does that mean? That you actively identify with feminine stereotypes? What about your identity is exclusively female?

In discussions, I have been asked "so do you identify as a woman?"

Why would anyone ask you this?

@334bu

*In discussions, I have been asked "so do you identify as a woman?"*

Why would anyone ask you this?

I was asked this a number of times on twitter within gender critical discussions (shrugs)

If I answer: "I am a cis woman" things are clear. If I answer "I am a woman" ppl might still think I am trans (as indicated by their original question

Do you think people would have a hard time correctly sexing you?

There are women and trans women.
No need for any 'cis' to differentiate women from a small % of males who 'identity as' women.

@334bu

Make it? male or..

that won't work in that context, because if I was a trans woman, I'd answer "no" to "male" and "yes" to "female" and the person who asked would be none the wiser.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

If I answer: "I am a cis woman" things are clear. If I answer "I am a woman" ppl might still think I am trans (as indicated by their original question

Do you think people would have a hard time correctly sexing you?

There are women and trans women.
No need for any 'cis' to differentiate women from a small % of males who 'identity as' women.

online, apparently.

And no - see my other answers. If I was a trans woman, I'd answer the question of whether I am a woman with "yes", I the question was "do you identify as a woman" and I'd answer "yes", people would think I am trans. Using "cis" is really an easy way to answer either question fully and unambiguously.

oh, and I was constantly misgendered as a child up to about 12...

I would say it is exclusionary if work are using it on the intranet. If you do not believe in gender identity you can't be labelled cis as cis is part of the gender identity belief. I too have had a discussion about this at work and this was my viewpoint about it excluding all the people who do not believe they have a gender identity.

Is it misgendering to call someone cis who doesn't identify as cis?

I would say it is. I don't identify as cis and fundamentally disagree with its use to describe all biological women except transmen.

I am regularly referred to, in the media, online and even at work, as a ciswomen but I don't identify as cis and find it offensive to be referred to as cis.

But somehow I'm a "bigot" and a "transphobe" for objecting to being misgendered. Such hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance.

that won't work in that context, because if I was a trans woman, I'd answer "no" to "male" and "yes" to "female" and the person who asked would be none the wiser.

So in the context of something to do with sex , transwomen would deny their own physical sex. Let's hope that, if it is in a health context, the person asking the question can correctly sex them.

oh, and I was constantly misgendered as a child up to about 12..

So? Every little girl with short hair will be misgendered at some time in her childhood.