Thankyou Laurel Hubbard

[ferretface]

I am active on a sports related site where there is currently a lively debate on trans inclusion in sport thanks to Ms. Hubbard and the IOC rules which allow her participation.

I think it's the first time I've felt safe to put my views on the importance of sex based categories in sports to my actual name (the site is largely full of reasonable and respectful people, even if there is a lively debate). Even more hearteningly I'm watching the scales drop from some people's eyes as the debate progresses. Once you see the problem, you can't unsee it.

So thankyou, Laurel Hubbard. Just sorry that the Olympic dreams of a young woman in her 20s had to be dashed to give you your spot and give this issue the visibility that will lead to change.

It is not just testosterone and a male puberty. It is being make full stop.

A couple of years ago I was talking to my children's years r teacher. I made a comment that my daughter's handwriting was much nearer at the same age than my son's.

She said, that is typical. As a general rule bots take longer to develop the fine motor skills as they are developing more muscle mass. Girls don't, so they tend to get those fine motor skills earlier.

I always thought that was interesting. (Son's handwriting is still crap.) Obviously there are exceptions to every rule, and the above is fairly general.

I've heard some pretty scathing remarks against Australia and Australians in general based on this incident in the years I lived in NZ and that was years after it happened.
Nothing will change further up if everyone and every country just goes along with it because it is "within the rules".

You know the difference between someone following the rules and someone exploiting a loophole (or the letter not the spirit of the law).

they would have to believe that they are the best female weightlifter that has ever lived.

Given they presumably believe themselves female despite the evidence, I suppose believing themselves the best isn’t as great a leap.

@SecondCityShark

Personally, I'm hoping that Hubbard wins by a long margin.

I also hope this is replicated across the other Olympic events.

The world will not be able to not see the unfairness of it all. And then public debate can finally crack wide open. And I'm hoping for an outbreak of common sense on the back of it.

There's a cynical part of me wondering if they're going to deliberately lose. To show the world they're making a fuss over nothing.

@YouSetTheTone

The comments on the Laurel Hubbard articles in the media, the DM in particular, are 100% outraged but it annoys me when people should say ‘the female athletes should boycott and protest!’ Why is it the women who have to suffer to protest? Why can’t the MEN show solidarity by boycotting and insisting that Hubbard should be competing in their group? Why can’t the audience refuse to buy tickets for that event? Why can’t the organisers step up and say that sports must be firmly segregated by sex? Ffs. Why is it always women who have to make a stand when we’ll be the ones punished or losing out for doing so?

And look what happens to women who do stand up.

The comments which really give me the rage are the blokes who say "Where have the feminists been while all this has been going on?"

@Mumoftwoinprimary would you be able to.start a thread with your comment about Nini, or mind if I c & p it?

Everyone who knows Hubbard's name should know Nini's name, too

Hubbard may well lose because they are in their mid forties and carry a serious injury, so why is nobody commenting on the implausibility of any woman athlete being able to achieve an Olympic place in such circumstances. If Hubbard were a member of the female sex class this would be being splashed across the papers for the miraculous achievement it would be.

Yes, and if Hubbard does lose, or retires injured, I fear people will soon forget about it. Who cares about Nini who didn't get her place.

"Where have the feminists been while all this has been going on?

And if you were to tell them what's been happening, the cancellation, the job losses, the deplatforming from social media, the deleted newspaper comments - they'd dismiss it as implausible conspiracy theory or downright paranoia.

[quote FlyPassed]@Mumoftwoinprimary would you be able to.start a thread with your comment about Nini, or mind if I c & p it?

Everyone who knows Hubbard's name should know Nini's name, too[/quote]
Happy for you to copy and paste. Mad day at work today so if I started one it would be a bit of a “dump and run”. Agree - we should all know Nini’s name.

I would love to see the make athletes make some stand. To say it’s not ok.

Sadly I suspect if men made a stand against it they would be listened to. Because women’s voices just don’t count.

Male!!!

I saw this on a UniLad story about a different transgender person not being allowed to compete (due to their testosterone levels being too high) and it made me chuckle. Interesting, the UniLad angle seemed to be poor trans athlete but all the comments (mainly from men) supported women…

WarOnWoman

"I'm pretty sure that the Iranian women's football team have a few TW."

No, they don't. A few years ago an Iranian football official turned up at a training session and found a few transgender athletes training with the Iranian women's team. He demanded that they leave the team immediately.
If you want to see cheating, then watch this video of Australian handball player 6' 2" 100kg Hannah Mouncey, playing against the Iranian handball team in 2018.

@334bu

Hubbard may well lose because they are in their mid forties and carry a serious injury, so why is nobody commenting on the implausibility of any woman athlete being able to achieve an Olympic place in such circumstances. If Hubbard were a member of the female sex class this would be being splashed across the papers for the miraculous achievement it would be.

Do you mean in an article like this from the BBC a few weeks ago?

www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/57382789

For proof that Olympic dreams can be realised later in life, one need only look at the Australian marathon team for this summer's Tokyo Games. The squad's three female members boast a combined age of 118 with the eldest, Sinead Diver, set to make her Olympic debut at 44. Diver's achievement is certainly remarkable.

Laurel should definitely be featured in that article.

Distance running is an interesting one (I'm a distance runner) as many athletes don't hit their peak until 30s/40s the longer the distance is. Often athletes start out at 5000/10000 metres then move up to the marathon later in their career. The high mileage that gives you success at the marathon has to be worked up to otherwise there's a major risk of injury. That's maybe less the case for Diver who discovered running later than many of her peers but it's the general trend. It's one of the reasons I love running, in most races the top V45s are just as competitive as people in their 20s.

It's definitely NOT the case for weightlifting so Laurel's exceptional performance needs to be highlighted, discussed and studied!

I wonder if you are on the same website as I am ferretface (NOT expecting an answer to that, just a musing). If so the response from the trans perspective has been illuminating (but not in the way I expect that they hope it is) and amusing and frustrating in equal measure!! There has been very little by way of engaging with the actual logical nuts and bolts of the discussion.

Because you can't engage logically without admitting that you want women's sports to be unfair so that transwomen cam be happy.

@ferfaffle

Then next time, it will be someone in their 20s, who sweeps the board.

I think the Paris 2024 Olympics are going to be extraordinary.

Like Emily Bridges. Emily Bridges is a UK cyclist, who says they always knew they were transgender but wanted to delay transition until after the Paris Olympics 2024 where it was widely predicted that they would be a contender for gold as their world ranking was so high. Emily wanted a men’s cycling medal , and wanting that medal was more important than transitioning. Fair enough, their choice.

Then they had a series of serious accidents, the results of which put their male world ranking so low they no longer qualified for the funding, equipment upgrades, training camps, sports psychology, nutrition advice etc etc that was available to the small number of elite cyclists being fostered by the British Cycling management.

Except that although their world ranking was low as a male competitor, it was still high enough to be a successful female competitor. Result!!! So bring forward the transition that hadn’t mattered so much before, bump a female team member off the elite training programme , get in gear for Paris , re focus on the dream

Shame about the fellow team member whose hard work, commitment , dedication and dreams are as shattered as Emily’s leg, , but hey, she’s only a girl, probably not really serious about the sport anyway, not like brave Emily, who isn’t going to let injury stop them achieving their dreams.

To be honest I haven’t been keeping up with Emily’s story, this was the state of play last year. I hope they have reconsidered, but I can see this scenario being repeated , not just in the UK, but world wide. The door is open and Hubbards dainty foot is keeping it open.

Thank you for that article . Do you have a link to the one for weightlifters, sprinters, jumpers, boxers, footballers, tennis players.....?

@WomaninBoots I may well be! If so and irrespective, thanks for standing up for women

viques

The thing about Emily Bridges, was that they were competing in the junior ranks in 2018 when they broke the British national junior record at 25 miles in 47m 27s. That record was once held by Chris Boardman and the time set by Bridges is more than 2 minutes quicker than the British women's record.

I have no idea if this is accurate but according to this tweet Nini is going to the Olympics!

mobile.twitter.com/mar_vickers/status/1408481289515245568

I’m so happy if it is true. Congratulations Nini!

Sandy Draws Badly:

twitter.com/SandyDrawsBadly/status/1408382246231461895