Why mainly trans women?

[iMombie]

Hi,
Please don’t anyone flame me for this. I honestly don’t mean any disrespect, I’m just trying to learn. I’m curious and wonder if anyone has any insight to my question.
My attention has been drawn on the views of the likes of Forstater, de Wahl, JK Rowling (I know that’s not too recent).
I genuinely didn’t realise that believing in a biological definition of sex Is now deemed wrong. With that I’ve been trying to find articles and pieces to read to understand this (I do not have a lot of time on my hands for this, so not as succinct research as I would have liked(
But what I have come across, is that the group that are mainly upset with all of this are trans women.

So my question is...Why aren’t trans men seemingly as vocal about their definition of being a man?

Does this make sense or am I sounding like my mother when she talks about gay people?! I know I’m probably missing something and I sound quite thick. Apologies if that’s so.

A trans man in male spaces or sport would never be a threat to those men (though as a TM may be at the mercy of the men).

A trans woman in female spaces or sport is always a potential threat*, and unlikely to be at the mercy of females.

• And before any one thinks I am being transphobic, this is because as feminists have been saying for decades "all men are potential rapists".

We are as vocal, a significant portion of people just love infantalizing us and treating us as victims (of either homophobia, attempting to escape femininity, being groomed, that we're autistic people who don't know any better or some other complete load of bullshit) rather than treating us as a threat or a sex pest.

@DdraigGoch

Because transmen know that male prisons would be dangerous for them, that there's no point in trying to access men's sports because they'd never be able to compete anyway, and that male toilets aren't necessarily equipped to deal with female issues (I'm thinking sanitary bins here).

Female prisons would be significantly more dangerous to me, given I'd stand out like a sore thumb and would be significantly more likely to be (sexually) assaulted whereas in a male prison I could pass under the radar if I do the same thing I do now in terms of showering with other guys.

A trans man is also the only trans person who has any Olympic accomplishments to date.

Also bins should be in men's toilets and it's a scam and a half when they aren't. Place to throw your loo rolls into, your pads into, your medicine waste. Though testosterone has the great side effect of sometimes completely nullifying any menstruation, great stuff.

@Grellbunt

I know. Me too.

The whole system is unfair, but removing the surgery requirement struck me as ... well. Just so .. shocking. Literally NO discussion of the unintended consequences in that decision - it was all about the TP's right not to be made infertile. No balancing of rights at all. The government defending didn't make the case, so the issue wasn't even argued. It could easily have been put forward as a justification for retaining that requirement. But ... no. Nada.

There's zero discussion or 'balance of rights' when the lack of the ban violated our human rights.

And this is precisely why, despite contrary claim, Iran is absolute shit to trans people - because it forces mandatory surgery and treatments on people who may not want or may not physically be capable of handling the procedures, because it's not about the trans person in question, it's about fitting the societal norm, and then discards us onto the street like dirt.

Forcing a phalloplasty on someone who doesn't want one, for instance, is torture, plain and simple.

A trans man is also the only trans person who has any Olympic accomplishments to date.

Who would that be then? Not Chris Mosier I assume, it’s been shown to be a bit of fudge about how successful Mosier is at race walking:

medium.com/@drtonylycholat/slower-than-a-spritely-grandma-81dd8000dfac

Caitlyn Jenner is the obvious successful trans athlete, won a gold medal at the 1976 Olympics.

Female prisons would be significantly more dangerous to me, given I'd stand out like a sore thumb and would be significantly more likely to be (sexually) assaulted whereas in a male prison I could pass under the radar if I do the same thing I do now in terms of showering with other guys.

This is worrying. Do you really think if you were sent to a men’s prison you could keep the fact you’re female under the radar? Using the toilet in your cell would be an instant giveaway. Do you think the threat of being raped with a penis is less of a threat than being sexually assaulted by another female in a women’s prison?

Who would that be then? Not Chris Mosier I assume, it’s been shown to be a bit of fudge about how successful Mosier is at race walking:

The very one.

I'm not counting people who weren't aware or otherwise not present at that time as a transgender individual.

This is worrying. Do you really think if you were sent to a men’s prison you could keep the fact you’re female under the radar? Using the toilet in your cell would be an instant giveaway. Do you think the threat of being raped with a penis is less of a threat than being sexually assaulted by another female in a women’s prison?confused

Rape is rape regardless of whether that involves a penis or not. Women's prisons could have me raped by the guards anyway (significantly more likely, in fact, going by the accounts of trans men who were forced into women's prisons), so if you're going to argue that me going to the women's and being blatantly trans is going to give a 'safe haven' (as though being raped without someone's penis being involved is any better) you've clearly never thought about women's prisons or the dangers they face.

This is a men’s rights movement.
All the framework and ideas for unpicking State protections for women come from the USA where the drug companies want to expand the market for trans drugs-patients for life.
It’s a neo Capitalist movement to unpick Socialist based state protections for women that have been well established for decades as they are inconvenient to the narrative that you can change sex.

The very one

And as the article points out, Mosier is a mediocre age-group race walker. Not Olympic standard by any means.

I'm not counting people who weren't aware or otherwise not present at that time as a transgender individual.

But Jenner has always been trans. Jenner was born trans, isn’t that the narrative? Whether Jenner had realised it or not. So Jenner was a trans Olympian.

Rape is rape regardless of whether that involves a penis or not.

Not in English law. It can only involve a penis. Anything else is sexual assault.

significantly more likely, in fact, going by the accounts of trans men who were forced into women's prisons)

You think a female is more likely to be raped or sexually assaulted by guards in a women’s prison than spending 24 hours a day locked up in enclosed surroundings with hundreds of males? Blimey.

so if you're going to argue that me going to the women's and being blatantly trans is going to give a 'safe haven’

It’s remarkable that in a risk assessment of your own safety you think a women’s prison poses greater threat to you as a trans man. I just can’t get my head around why you would argue such blatant falsehoods just to make a point that trans men aren’t victims of the same misogyny that women are in this debate. I find that quite sad.

@Peoniesandpeaches

Transmen who don’t “pass” are typically just “read” as butch lesbians however transwomen who fail to pass are “read” as men in dresses. The risks of facing violence are higher for transwomen.

Evidence for this assertion please.

I think that poster is in bad faith. Everyone knows the overwhelmingly disproportionate levels of violence in males compared to females.

I have 2 friends whose daughters have become sons. It's hard to talk to them (my friends).

Do transmen believe they are men like transwomen believe they are women? Do they also believe they have changed sex?

Do transmen believe they are men like transwomen believe they are women? Do they also believe they have changed sex?

That is what the mantra says.

My niece is a transman and says she believes she's a man.

Which one I wonder

Really what Datun said in the second post here and all posts echoing this thereafter!

It also seems to be different reasoning for most transmen. Many identified later in life and also describe external and sometimes internalised misogyny.
Trauma, sexual trauma can be a root cause for female transition (some men too but not as many it seems).

Many transmen on twitter seem to understand the implications in the reality of biology much more. It's also much harder to fully transition in terms of genitals. So more of a level of acceptance perhaps?

I have to say that the only real life feminist meeting I managed to make in 2019 before Covid, it was mostly trans men and young women protesting. Not very many but they were v angry. Though had no idea what we were discussing. They were invited inside but declined. Michelle Moore did a v hard hitting speech about the book she was working on, inventing transgender children. (I've since learnt that a lot of the transwomen locally are actually quite T*rfy themselves!)

You find the answer to a lot of this through listening to detransitioners.

Other answers are found within videos such as this:

.be

@Peoniesandpeaches

Transmen who don’t “pass” are typically just “read” as butch lesbians however transwomen who fail to pass are “read” as men in dresses. The risks of facing violence are higher for transwomen.

This is also a big factor in day to day life.

@Peoniesandpeaches

Transmen who don’t “pass” are typically just “read” as butch lesbians however transwomen who fail to pass are “read” as men in dresses. The risks of facing violence are higher for transwomen.

Unless they access male spaces? Which might be why the desire to do so is lower.

Therefore, when transmen get excluded from male spaces (which happe
ns quite frequently as I understand it), they don't kick off about it.

When do transmen get excluded?

Because making sports, prisons and changing rooms single gender rather than single sex in no way benefits trans men (bar maybe in terms of feeling affirmed)

Although actually I think transmen are vocal supporters of trans women’s rights.

Most media attention is focused on transwomen getting political positions, power and jobs while most transmen make the media for having babies.

This is so true. Can't believe I haven't noticed it before.

There just seems to be so much vitriol and anger tied up in all of this.

Some humans are more used to getting what they want through force.

That medium article about Mosier is brilliant, thanks for sharing notbad

@Cailin66

Therefore, when transmen get excluded from male spaces (which happe ns quite frequently as I understand it), they don't kick off about it.

When do transmen get excluded?

Transmen can’t inherit titles under the GRA (Parliament knows what a a woman is when it comes to who is the next duke of x or Earl of y)

They can’t be masons

Gay saunas have been known to exclude tjem

For TM attracted to men, gay men generally are a LOT less accommodating because you know they’re men and weren’t brought up to beeeeee kiiiiiind and so are much more “I like cock”