Why mainly trans women?

[iMombie]

Hi,
Please don’t anyone flame me for this. I honestly don’t mean any disrespect, I’m just trying to learn. I’m curious and wonder if anyone has any insight to my question.
My attention has been drawn on the views of the likes of Forstater, de Wahl, JK Rowling (I know that’s not too recent).
I genuinely didn’t realise that believing in a biological definition of sex Is now deemed wrong. With that I’ve been trying to find articles and pieces to read to understand this (I do not have a lot of time on my hands for this, so not as succinct research as I would have liked(
But what I have come across, is that the group that are mainly upset with all of this are trans women.

So my question is...Why aren’t trans men seemingly as vocal about their definition of being a man?

Does this make sense or am I sounding like my mother when she talks about gay people?! I know I’m probably missing something and I sound quite thick. Apologies if that’s so.

Transmen are female and no one cares what females want.

I think there's something about the power differential between men and women - it seems less challenging that a female would identify as a man as they are moving up the power hierarchy. A male identifying as a woman is moving down so its viewed as more challenging and like they are giving something up so society should pity them almost.
But also people born male will be socialised differently to people born female and may be more confident to speak up for what they want and need.

Male entitlement? Male socialisation?

Male and female socialisation is different.

@Datun

Transmen are female and no one cares what females want.

YY

@TheChild

Male entitlement? Male socialisation?

YY

Make aggression

Male

@Datun

Transmen are female and no one cares what females want.

This is why.

Men don't feel threatened by transmen; there are no significant clashes of interest.

Because they've been socialised as girls.

Because despite comments to the contrary, everyone knows who should be listened to and it isn't people born female.

Most media attention is focused on transwomen getting political positions, power and jobs while most transmen make the media for having babies.

It's almost like they don't believe their own spiel.

Transmen know they are only there on sufferance.

Op, men don't care if women want to play men's sport, use men's loos, go to men's prisons - they're absolutely no threat. Quite the opposite.

And anyway, transmen, given that they are female, are not clamouring to get into men's prisons, they can't compete in men's sports, and many of them don't want to use men's toilets.

Transwomen, on the other hand have a distinct advantage in women's sport, they have an advantage in going to a female prison, and many of them want the validation of using female toilets and changing rooms.

It's not symmetrical. And sexism is still running through the whole thing like a stick of rock.

I think it's because trans women were, in the main, brought up as males. So have been socialised to believe their opinion counts and should be listened to.

Trans men, on the other hand, being brought up as female, don't have that degree of belief in their right to be heard.

There's less opposition to transmen being allowed in male spaces, playing on men's sports teams etc. So maybe transmen don't feel they need to be as vocal?

@Datun

Op, men don't care if women want to play men's sport, use men's loos, go to men's prisons - they're absolutely no threat. Quite the opposite.

And anyway, transmen, given that they are female, are not clamouring to get into men's prisons, they can't compete in men's sports, and many of them don't want to use men's toilets.

Transwomen, on the other hand have a distinct advantage in women's sport, they have an advantage in going to a female prison, and many of them want the validation of using female toilets and changing rooms.

It's not symmetrical. And sexism is still running through the whole thing like a stick of rock.

The asymmetric nature of it means that transgenderism will per se always be discriminatory towards females. This appears not to matter to the powers that be. I've often wondered if Garcon v Nicot (the case that removed the surgery requirement) might be vulnerable on that basis. Would be a very tough case to make though. Real first principles stuff. Morally, though, it's a compelling case.

The asymmetric nature of it means that transgenderism will per se always be discriminatory towards females
Indeed!
Tthis makes me feel angry and powerless.

I know. Me too.

The whole system is unfair, but removing the surgery requirement struck me as ... well. Just so .. shocking. Literally NO discussion of the unintended consequences in that decision - it was all about the TP's right not to be made infertile. No balancing of rights at all. The government defending didn't make the case, so the issue wasn't even argued. It could easily have been put forward as a justification for retaining that requirement. But ... no. Nada.

You'll simply never find a transman (eg a female) demanding incessantly to be included in the world cup or The Olympics as a man, or to have access to a men's prison or a men's homeless shelter or youth hostel.

Is it really surprising!

In this week’s Waitrose magazine there’s a Pride related feature which shows 2 TW, lots of gay men and only one lesbian. Surely there is more than one LGBTQ+ woman worth featuring. No sign of Allison Bailey.

It's interesting there has been lots of hate towards lesbians for not accepting partners with penises. But not the same anger towards straight men who feel the same.

GrownUpBeans

Yep....
It's almost as though... patriarchy.....

The trans men I've met seem to be trying to identify out of femininity and femaleness rather than deliberately identifying in to being a man. I think that's why there seem to be more nonbinary females. There is a lot of beard growing but that may be to make their faces look less feminine.
Transwomen seem more bothered about validation and identifying in to being a woman.
Also the male socialisation, males being better at many sports and I think there is more of a desire to subjugate women. Transmen don't seem to go around telling males that they are the most vulnerable men and that non transmen have privilege and should pay more attention to transmen. There seems to be more just trying to pass and fit in rather than telling males how to live their lives and what to think..

Because trans women are men and they can't stand women having anything they can't. Even down to our definition and periods.