Why aren't transactivists gender-critical?

[oxcat1]

Please go easy on me if this is a stupid question.

If gender is simply the socially constructed expectations of how people should behave and dress, why isn't the trans movement gender critical? Surely to break down these societal expectations is in their interests (just as it is in the interest of women, feminists argue)?

Instead, the trans movement seeks to enshrine in law the very structure that makes living their own lives as they wish, free from constraints of societal expectations, so very difficult.

Why is that? Or have I totally misunderstood?

I haven't said I want to, what was the word. Eradicate gender. I said earlier I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Sorry NiceGerbil the bathroom thing was referring to people in general in case they brought it up and the beliefs was to Helleofabore.

Do you mean bogs.

I don't understand this common use of terms from other countries.

@NiceGerbil and @BugWoman just to say I think the Equal Pay Act has been repealed and replaced by the Equality Act - which of course is a much broader piece of legislation prohibiting all direct and indirect discrimination on the basis of a number of different protected characteristics.

@BugWoman

I guess the problem is we fundamentally disagree on if trans women even are women. As you see them as not, you believe that a man is stealing a women's opportunity whereas I see a woman - an arguably more deserving one - gaining an opportunity. And I doubt i can convince you otherwise

So you honestly believe a young male who has transitioned within a 12 month period should sit as either a co-chair for a women’s officer role in a political party and would know what females need and advocate solely for females and not for any other group (they are the women’s officer, that should be their only remit). Or in a university. So far the anecdotal evidence has proven that these people do not adequately represent females at all.

Or that a panel to encourage females to enter into politics to even out the sex that it is ok to have 2 transwomen and 2 women. That the late transitioned transwomen know the female experience and just why females are NOT entering politics.

And please show us the scientific evidence that males who have benefited from a male puberty have no advantages over a female.

The point and conversation around it stands though.

I thought it was an interesting discussion.

And certainly if you look around the world I'm sure there's plenty.

The focus on UK/ USA and maybe AUs / Canada is incredibly narrow. I find it frustrating.

Obviously, a role that is heavily focused on women shouldn't go to a transwomen especially one that's just transitioned recently. However, a panel with 2 cis and 2 trans women could be beneficial as trans feminism is still important in the discussion. I doubt the first example has happened however and I have no idea what your third paragraph means.
Finnally, don't call women 'females' its creepy

@BugWoman

I guess the problem is we fundamentally disagree on if trans women even are women. As you see them as not, you believe that a man is stealing a women's opportunity whereas I see a woman - an arguably more deserving one - gaining an opportunity. And I doubt i can convince you otherwise

Can you please tell us why you think a male who identifies as a woman is ‘more deserving’ of an opportunity than a female?

You will never convince me that a male who has never experienced discrimination due to their female body is more deserving of an opportunity set aside to progress females because of that very reason, because of their female body. That females have experienced for millennia and still experience today. Sexist discrimination. Due to our biology that has been also exploited by males forever.

I would like to know why you think a male is ‘arguably more deserving’ of the opportunity that was set aside for females (including transmen).

Being a transwoman means you have to overcome more adversary, being both a woman and trans. When someone has transitioned they can get a pretty good understanding of the female experience. But with a unique angle on it because of them also being trans.

If I can't call women women without including transwomen.

(You have indicated not believing transwomen are women is a problem).

And I can't call them females.

Then what options are left???

@BugWoman

Obviously, a role that is heavily focused on women shouldn't go to a transwomen especially one that's just transitioned recently. However, a panel with 2 cis and 2 trans women could be beneficial as trans feminism is still important in the discussion. I doubt the first example has happened however and I have no idea what your third paragraph means. Finnally, don't call women 'females' its creepy

I call females, females because they (including me) are the sex category that is a female.

It is a category that includes all females regardless of how they identify.

Please tell me exactly what ‘trans feminism’ can ‘add’ to a discussion about sexist discrimination experienced by females unless that person was a transman? A male identifying as a woman can certainly discuss the discrimination they face, it might even have some similarities to that experienced by a female. But it is not the same.

@BugWoman

Being a transwoman means you have to overcome more adversary, being both a woman and trans. When someone has transitioned they can get a pretty good understanding of the female experience. But with a unique angle on it because of them also being trans.

Are you speaking from your own experience?

Someone cant be a female. Someone can be a female person. My problem with females is it sounds creepy/predatory. Other alternatives are: transwomen, or if you want to refer to ciswomen... call them ciswomen.

@BugWoman

Being a transwoman means you have to overcome more adversary, being both a woman and trans. When someone has transitioned they can get a pretty good understanding of the female experience. But with a unique angle on it because of them also being trans.

Is this a blanket comment? All transwomen Vs everyone else? Full stop?

What about the girls aborted because of their sex that I mentioned? The estimates of 'missing girls' is massive.

More than the girls who were taken by Isis?

More than the victims of genocide? Eg Uighar people in China that's been recognised as genocide by UK USA Germany etc?

Helleofabore Are you getting confused between trans men and women. To clarify, a transwomen is a person who was born a man but later transitioned to a woman. And vice versa. I don't particularly care about the female thing but it is grammatically incorrect and makes you sound like a predator (at least in my opinion).

'Other alternatives are: transwomen, or if you want to refer to ciswomen... call them ciswomen.'

You're saying that there are no acceptable terms to refer to the female half of the human race as s group?

Girls/ women. No.
Females or similar. No. And anyway I've seen plenty of transwomen who say they are female and have been from birth.
Ciswomen. No- doesn't include female non binary, transmen, other genders, and also excludes an lot of (female humans!). So that doesn't work.

Oh sorry I answered on hellebores behalf!

Apologies hellebore.

Being a transwoman means you have to overcome more adversary, being both a woman and trans. When someone has transitioned they can get a pretty good understanding of the female experience. But with a unique angle on it because of them also being trans.

Transpeople have insight on the discrimination and needs of transpeople. They do not have the knowledge or experience of the opposite sex class- Ie. Transwomen do not have ‘a good understanding of the female experience’.

You don’t have to look far to see the prominent trans spokespeople to see that they usually have little experience or empathy. I’d suggest you look at Grace Laverty’s definition of a woman over the past day or two. Or the two trans influencers who mocked the toilet habits of females on IWD this year and the noises of urine hitting the bowl when a female goes to the toilet. One of those is appearing on tv and radio as a feminist spokesperson. I can come up with many more examples. Examples of misogynistic behaviour that certainly shows not even empathy.

Of course, there are quite a few trans spokespeople who do not seek to represent females at all. They acknowledge they don’t have the same experiences.

I didn't realise you wanted a term to refer to all women, that's simple: women.

at women on the feminism board having the same ideas as sexually predatory incel/MRA blokes.

This is another distraction.

Go for it Gerbil. I have no proprietary claim here.

@BugWoman

I didn't realise you wanted a term to refer to all women, that's simple: women.

Yes.

So women is anyone who says they are a woman, is uncomfortable with the sex/ gender role imposed on them because they are male.

Or any other reason.

Gotcha.

@BugWoman

Someone cant be a female. Someone can be a female person. My problem with females is it sounds creepy/predatory. Other alternatives are: transwomen, or if you want to refer to ciswomen... call them ciswomen.

🤣 females isn't creepy. It's the name of one of the two sexes.

Gender is assigned because of their sex however the sex itself isn't what dictates the value of the child.

Tell that to the 177 million missing females, largely due to sex specific abortion.

The lie is that sharing public spaces with transwomen is dangerous. It's annoying please don't mention it.

Men as a class constitute a risk to women as a class. They commit 98% of all sex crime. It might 'annoy' you to have that spoken of, but I'm afraid that's too bad.

And please don't tell women what they can and can't say.

At the end of the day, there are transwomen more informed about feminism than both you and I, and there are idiots. There are also completely idiotic feminists who are cis, they too get platforms.