Why aren't transactivists gender-critical?

[oxcat1]

Please go easy on me if this is a stupid question.

If gender is simply the socially constructed expectations of how people should behave and dress, why isn't the trans movement gender critical? Surely to break down these societal expectations is in their interests (just as it is in the interest of women, feminists argue)?

Instead, the trans movement seeks to enshrine in law the very structure that makes living their own lives as they wish, free from constraints of societal expectations, so very difficult.

Why is that? Or have I totally misunderstood?

[quote LewishamMum]@AlfonsoTheMango
The feelings bit I find weird. I have never felt like a woman, I don't even understand the concept. I've felt period pains, morning sickness, post partum difficulties, breast feeding, and I've felt prejudice and harassment because of my SEX, but despite all that I have never felt like a woman. I am a woman, but I feel like me. Sex is a part of that, and for me right now (I'm pregnant and have a little 'un) a big part, but I still don't feel like a woman. I feel like me and I am a woman.
Whenever I do brain quizzes I come out as male because I'm quite logical, but I also love knitting. That's just me.[/quote]
I know! That's what makes it so illogical.

I have yet to see anyone explain how it feels to be a woman. I see plenty of women talking about their experiences of being female, though.

Oh dear.

Alok thinks little girls are kinky and deviant, and claimed they themself used to be a 'cute little girl'.

yes, Datun. That is why I am questioning if this is the same 'Alok'. If it is, I think maybe that poster should look further into Alok's postings as they may not have come across it.

Because, once you see some of the past things that person has posted, you should be incredibly wary of anything they say.

@User52739

I think you have misunderstood. There’s a brilliant activist called Alok Vaid-Menon who regularly discusses gender theory from a non-binary perspective, I would definitely check out their Instagram and other writings if you want a great source straight from the horse’s mouth.

if you want a great source straight from the horse’s mouth.

Are we also going to be referred to Foucault too?

Did someone say Alok?

If we have Alok being touted as a brilliant activist in gender theory, we need some Magdalen.

oh. cross post!

I've just looked at some Alox stuff. I don't think it has cleared up anything at all.

@Helleofabore Magdalen Berns is worth posting twice, though.

AfternoonToffee

Alok is a great example of someone who depends on people accepting sexist stereotypes for themselves and society so that they can be perceived as being challenging them.

I would consider them actually pretty stereotypical for what the wider scope of their interests seem to be.

[quote InspiralCoalescenceRingdown]@Helleofabore Magdalen Berns is worth posting twice, though.[/quote]
I agree!

On this issue she is directly to the point.

Magdalen Berns at her fuming best.

@User52739

I think you have misunderstood. There’s a brilliant activist called Alok Vaid-Menon who regularly discusses gender theory from a non-binary perspective, I would definitely check out their Instagram and other writings if you want a great source straight from the horse’s mouth.

This Alok? The same one who sees little girls as ‘kinky’?

poptopic.com.au/tech/twitter-defends-gross-little-girls-are-kinky-tweet-by-alok-vaid-menon/

Every time I watch Magdalen, I feel a renewed energy for fighting this shit.

It’s because being gender critical would require males to be more accepting. Far easier to foist things on females.

User52739

I urge you to visit that Magdalen Burns video and even if you do not watch it, there is a link to something the person you have recommended as a source of authority posted that should set alarm bells ringing.

Read it and make up your own mind.

Yep. It's the complete illogicality of it all that winds me up.

I like things like Ru Paul's Drag Race. Here we see some men playing with "what it means to be a man" to gleefully expand the definition. Men with make-up blogs, all still identifying as men. THat's what I want to see: that being male or female shouldn't dictate what you think/like/wear.

The sheer regressive, sexist stereotypes that TRAs seem to cling to really boil my blood. "LOOK I'M A WOMAN" they shriek, because they've got lipstick and a skirt on, then at the drop of a hat they're threatening GCs with rape and violence.....just like the male sexist stereotype they're apparently nothing to do with.

As many know there's no logic to it and want to avoid being labelled sexist, they're starting to appropriate differences of sexual development, DSDs, aka intersex conditions.

It's still entirely illogical and uses scientific words as smoke and mirrors and to fool the reader:

www.simonesun.com/blog/2019/2/24/stop-using-science-to-justify-transphobia-facts-dont-care-about-your-feelings-d88g5

Even the title is ridiculous. Notable that the writer is a neuroscientist and artist.

An otherwise very clever woman, believes herself a feminist, was entirely persuaded by this writer's stuff and a podcast with a Brit called scrobius somebody. Who was apologising for some transgression by having them on.

Transphobia absolutely does exist, and a lot of it is also/ or homophobia. The US is v different to the uk, and it probably is harder to be different and non conforming in some areas, but this isn't an argument to therefore prove actuality of the sexist 'wrong body' idea with sexist ideas about genes and hormones.

Trans women, like all women, encompass a variety of presentations and interests. Some like long hair and makeup. Some don't. Some enjoy hobbies traditonally seen (or stereotyped) as feminine. Some don't.

It used to be impossible to access medical support without ascribing to a nice set of stereotypes - trans women were turned away from further assistance simply for coming to appointments wearing ladies' cut jeans, instead of a pretty skirt. Or any kind of skirt at all.

(Warning; that piece has v accurate and entirely reasonable descriptions of sex and sexual development and goes randomly squew whiff at the end concluding that therefore, trans exists)

I would also recommend watching PeachYoghurt's videos www.youtube.com/user/Perzikyoghurt/videos on YouTube. She is brilliant.

It's amusing when posters post links to people like Alok as if they expect it to be a killer response. That sort of thing really isn't going to convince people who aren't already believers!

20 years ago I thought David Beckham was a pointless attention seeker. If he were to be wearing that sarong as a new thing today I'd argue that he was a cutting edge progressive trying to show vulnerable trans teens that gender expression and identity do not need to be welded together.

He's only a footballer nothing else between the ears. He was messing about. David Bowie is more interesting than him.

It used to be impossible to access medical support without ascribing to a nice set of stereotypes - trans women were turned away from further assistance simply for coming to appointments wearing ladies' cut jeans, instead of a pretty skirt. Or any kind of skirt at all.

Yes, that's because society is sexist and there's this idea that if a male really makes an effort to dress in a "feminine" manner, they must therefore really be a woman. Women suffer from this stereotyping too.