Why are schools getting the blame for boys harassing girls?

[EastWestWhosBest]

Surely we need to ask some very serious questions about how boys are being brought up and more to the point the accessibility of porn.

Girls asked for nudes by up to 11 boys a night, Ofsted finds www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57411363

What makes you think schools are getting the blame? The link is about a report of what's happening in schools, so of course it focuses on what schools can do.

This isn't a new problem. The Govt has failed to act. The education minister has failed to act. Many schools seem to tolerate a culture of mobile phones use and open sexual abuse. Many parents seem to think its ok to give their children smart phones and internet access.

There was a court case threatened against Justine Greening for failing to provide schools with any guidance, the case was supported by the EHRC. I think nothing came of it because Greening left the post of education minister.

Blame isn't the right word, really OP. But I do agree that schools often end up with a heavy burden of responsibility to address, and even mend, things with no budget and minimal training.

The blame does not wholly lie with schools, of course.

But we've seen examples of some of the sex education resources schools have bought in here and they contained stuff that really can't have helped. Apologies for not remembering which specific resource packs these were from but some examples were : the dice game matching up body parts and actions, so pupils rolled and got such gems as "anus" and "lick"; drawing your sexual fantasies to share with your down-with-the-kids trainer; a chart with different levels of body modification, with "shaving", moving through "piercing" and ending on "fgm" ; penises can be female and big clits and small dicks look identical etc.

Problems with the above examples are: normalising sexual talk with adult strangers in a way that goes beyond what is educational - this strays dangerously close to grooming; normalising porn-influenced practices - problematic because porn is 99% male pleasure centred; teaching children that there is no difference between women and men and therefore obscuring the huge misogynist power imbalance between the sexes and preventing boys from knowing they need to do better and girls from discovering that the shit they endure is endemic and not their fault after all and that they don't need to feel shame.

Because all too often the school staff are complicit in blaming the girls.

The following link is distressing: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3364173-Our-kids-were-raped-by-classmates-DfE-wont-listen

The link is about a report of what's happening in schools

It's not. The most serious things in the report are happening out of school - on social media and at parties/social gatherings.

Blame, no but they do have a responsibility for the children in their care and far too many just brush off serious sexual harassment with 'boys will be boys'.

I think schools are in an impossible position. They seem to be expected to take over a lot of roles that formerly a family / local community.

Wouldn't it be nice if children arrive at school and be ready to be taught subjects that teachers are trained in.

Maybe the problem is about parents who should be going for some sort of education plust of course the fact that the media, not just social medica, but music film etc., is by and large a product of men, many of whom are little better than Incels.

I dont see how in a school day teachers are meant to reverse the indoctrination of young people that is going on by readily available unregulated sources and parents who either dont care, or cant see the problem because their child/ren makes sure they dont know what they are actually thinking and doing.

Its not the same, but every discussion about knife crime is always about our young people. But nobody will talk about the male culture (often imposed on young boys) that is the breeding ground.

What are we going to do about how (some) boys are growing up?

As a mum of a secondary age DD & nearly secondary DS I have had age appropriate conversations with both on consent issues and think parents should talk about this openly. Neither of mine are likely to have serious relationships nor sex anytime soon (DD legally could soon), but the subject shouldn't be hidden away.

I'm not sure all parents do though and I would like the schools to support the message of consent and appropriate conversations/ banter etc.
Better if it's a group effort?

I thought exactly the same OP. Why are schools the problem because boys are behaving in this way. It is a societal problem. Schools have no control over what boys do with their phones outside of school. It is down to parents of teems to monitor and check their kids messages and to teach them about respectful relationships. Schools teach this curriculum but are not responsible for everything a teen does outside of school.

The head teacher of a Solihull school said on Radio Two this morning that teenagers are living an online life that parents and teachers don't understand and the views expressed by the adults in real life is completely different from the views expressed online but more meaningful to the teens. Those with the loudest online voices are dictating everyone else's lives.

Jonathon Haidt has stats on how social media is impacting on girls' well being. Whilst this might not be directly related to the OPs question, I do think teachers, schools and parents aren't equipped with the knowledge of how to deal with the impact of teenage online life such as social media, porn and websites like Reddit.

There needs to much more done by government to train schools and staff to deal with sexual harassment online and offline.

I bang on about teenage use of devices to anyone who listens. Teenagers don't have the emotional resilience to cope with what is going on online as the adults around them flounder. It's a whole generation of children who have been let down.

mobile.twitter.com/JonHaidt/status/1083018006911963136

Elephant in the room - kids are not born knowing how to drop litter, yell abuse, bully others. Boys are not born with these appalling attitudes.

Parents teach them. Not all parents, but plenty of parents. The parents need the punishments too.

What I mean is why is no one questioning why boys are being allowed to behave this why and why are schools expected to fix it in the 190 days that children attend.

We need to look at the bigger picture of where this toxic masculinity is coming from as a whole society.

The schools have much of the the blame to bear.

1- They teach the mandatory Relationships and Sexual Health (Sex Ed) from primary age on. These lessons should include basics like don’t ask girls to message you nude pictures or send them dick pictures.

2- The schools are responsible for keeping girls safe from sexual assault and harassment from other pupils while in school. That’s their safeguarding responsibility. I suspect they just don’t take sexual harassment seriously.

@PlanDeRaccordement

The schools have much of the the blame to bear.

1- They teach the mandatory Relationships and Sexual Health (Sex Ed) from primary age on. These lessons should include basics like don’t ask girls to message you nude pictures or send them dick pictures.

2- The schools are responsible for keeping girls safe from sexual assault and harassment from other pupils while in school. That’s their safeguarding responsibility. I suspect they just don’t take sexual harassment seriously.

So not boys then? Boys aren’t to blame?

How do you expect schools to stop boys texting girls outside school hours?

To be fair, I agree that lots of schools don't take harassment seriously and the toxic masculinity can be a culture amongst adults too. Men tend to dominate leadership positions and that can create a trickle down .

@EastWestWhosBest

If you can prove to me that boys have been taught by the schools in PSHE classes how to behave, and that the schools take sexual harassment seriously, then yes the “boys are to blame”. But let’s not forget we are talking about children here. Minors with no criminal responsibility and therefore cannot be prosecuted as you would an adult. For children, the response is always to educate and enforce, but if the schools aren’t doing either of those things, then yes they are definitely a large part of who to blame.

How do you expect schools to stop boys texting girls outside school hours?

Parents can get schools involved in any out of hours problems such as bullying at the bus stop to yes, texting, or other malicious communications done off campus and outside school hours. Schools can still give the guilty child one on one remedial lessons in good behaviour as well as give detentions or even exclusions.

Do we have the time in 1800 pupil schools to do that?

I don't think you are correct that we can sanction activity that happens in the home.

How do you expect schools to stop boys texting girls outside school hours?

How do you expect parents to stop boys texting girls when the parents are not with the child?

Both parents and school, and also society generally, have a responsibility here.

I think schools are in an impossible position. They seem to be expected to take over a lot of roles that formerly a family / local community.

Yes. It's always schools. Teachers actually. Teachers who have not had training. Yes, there's safeguarding training but there's lots to cover in safeguarding. CSE, neglect etc rightly gets a fair chunk of the training time but I think this issue also needs more specialist training.

Because heavens knows, we can’t possibly make parents bring their children up with decent values, respect etc etc..

The attitudes are learnt at home, reinforced in school mixing with peers. Where else can we get in and try to stop the rot?

Boys and sexual harassment, girls ganging up on other girls, racism, homophobia, islamophobia - kids absorb parental views, this isn’t something new. Don’t blame ‘the boys’ - blame society, blame their parents. Then come up with a zero cost, human rights foolproof way to eradicate such views across all of society.

Or you could just try getting the right info in robustly, via schools where we at least have them captive for a few hours, and some minds might be changed.

Or just keep ‘blaming boys’ with no realistic solution.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@EastWestWhosBest

If you can prove to me that boys have been taught by the schools in PSHE classes how to behave, and that the schools take sexual harassment seriously, then yes the “boys are to blame”. But let’s not forget we are talking about children here. Minors with no criminal responsibility and therefore cannot be prosecuted as you would an adult. For children, the response is always to educate and enforce, but if the schools aren’t doing either of those things, then yes they are definitely a large part of who to blame.[/quote]
A couple of PHSE classes does not have an impact. It needs to be a whole school culture thing.

It's not just schools though. Parents and society at large have let children down.

@PlanDeRaccordement schools will absolutely not get involved in behaviour that takes place out of the school/school hours. They stand firm on those times being parental responsibility. The exception is if it’s a bunch of kids clearly pupils of that school, doing something along ASB lines, and getting caught. The school will give the kids a talking to then ‘bringing the school into disrepute’

Blame isnt the right word. It's a report on sexual harassment within schools, so or course it's all about it happening in schools.

But, it is so so wide spread that it simply means schools are not tackling it. But that's a government failing because they arent tackling it. When you do make complaints to schools about this sort it behaviour, they all handle it differently, often not actually taking any serious action, asking parents not to involve police. It really does depend on the teacher you get and what training they have had, which isnt much so again, a government failing.

My son was sexually assaulted when he was in primary 1 by a boy in primary 2 whilst they were in the toilets. That boy pushed into the cubicle with my son and locked the door, standing between my son and the door and assaulted him. The school's reaction was all about protecting the other boy because he was deemed "vulnerable". It took over a year to have him removed from the school. My son was offered no help or support, he wasnt even given a guarantee that the other boy would not be allowed in the same playground or lunch room. The school didnt even place any restrictions on his going to the toilet unsupervised so he was able to do it to another child several months later. It was me and that other parent who called in social services ourselves, and pushed through getting that kid removed. The school would have allowed him to continue going into the toilets with other small children and doing whatever the wanted. It makes me furious.

Schools need to do more. The government needs to do more.

Why are boys getting all the blame? Insta is full of girls under 16 (under 13 often) posting nearly naked pictures, yes they have rights to post what they like but Why do they want to post these things? I know I'm going to be slaughtered for this and I do think we have to address male violence but the premature sexulisation of girls also needs to be addressed.