Why are schools getting the blame for boys harassing girls?

[EastWestWhosBest]

Surely we need to ask some very serious questions about how boys are being brought up and more to the point the accessibility of porn.

Girls asked for nudes by up to 11 boys a night, Ofsted finds www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57411363

@MissSueFlay

I've just listened to a report on this on R4 news - at no point at all, in the whole report, did they say who is was that was doing the harassment. Just that girls were the victims of it. Even the girls who were interviewed didn't say it was boys and men who were doing it. If they won't even name it.... I found it so frustrating

And don't get me started on Alistair Stewart on Today this morning talking about the 'good blokes' who 'made a mistake' posting misogynistic and racist tweets

Have they looked at the average girls insta, how they choose to show themselves. I am uncomfortable with the idea that it is OK for girls to sexulise themselves and yet expect no response. What response would I expect I posted a picture of me in a bra and pants. People will argue that it is their prerogative, but what response do they wish?

@YouWereGr8InLittleMenstruators

Shit, just typed a long response, the bottom line being: Listening to the Today programme this morning, I found it irritating that the gist seemed to be that boys should not be held accountable for sexual violence against girls until we have somehow managed to educate them otherwise. I work in a primary school and daily expect quite young pupils to take responsibility for their part in quite complex instances of manipulative, coercive or violent transgressions. They invariably understand exactly how their behaviour or attitude has contributed to a negative outcome. To not expect boys of mainly secondary school age to know that sexual harassment is unacceptable is ridiculous. Of course they know. Every last one of them. But they still do things to female peers which fall into that category. They just don't care enough not to do it. And I despair at the use of phones in schools. With IT capability and hardware improving in schools all the time, I can not see the need for pupils to have phones during the school day. Likewise parents who do not closely monitor their kids phones and allow 24:7 access. Just why?

But it's not that clear. There is a post now where a dd deliberately took a picture of a boy on Snapchat with her parents phone. Also why do parents allow their girls to post sexualised images? Is it the girls parents fault that they have?

Also why do parents allow their girls to post sexualised images?

Why does the girl want to post sexialised images, would be the question I'd be asking.
My answers would be very long but mostly mysogonistic societal attitudes from birth.

@Ducksurprise

I blame the parents who raise them as much as I blame the boys, who subsequently become the men who egg on the girls. If the girls egg on one another, they are acting under a culture that centers boys, is uninterested in holding boys accountable and excuses their behavior

But can't you see that this view absolves the girls? It's convenient to blame boy children and refuse to acknowledge the role girls have. Refusal to acknowledge helps no one

Absolves the girls from what exactly? Asking for it?

My primary DD was sexually harassed by a boy in her year from school (not on social media, in real life), not physically, verbally. I reported to the school and they did deal with it as a safeguarding issue.

At the time it struck me that it's feasible for a primary to deal with this occasionally (I think it's not massively common in primary schools), but secondary schools must be absolutely deluged. How practical is it for secondaries to address each incident? I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't or should, but in resource terms, it must be a huge challenge.

Justajot "in resource terms, it must be a huge challenge."
You're not wrong. A huge part of my regular daily duties as a classroom teacher is to address breaches of behaviour code, mediate, contact parents, log incidents, supervise sanctions etc. I probably spend an hour a day dealing with incidents in just my class, as we take reporting, accountability and conflict resolution very seriously.
And Duck, I think you're barking up the wrong tree with your take on the sexualisation of girls and its many distressing expressions. They are victims of patriarchal socialisation, and that is how it plays out. C'mon.

I became alarmed by the increase in sexualised behaviour and language in school some time between 2000 and 2010, raised it with management on a number of occasions and got brushed off every time. I couldn’t believe they couldn’t see it. I retired from secondary in 2013 and can only imagine it’s got worse since then.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

Also why do parents allow their girls to post sexualised images?

Why does the girl want to post sexialised images, would be the question I'd be asking.
My answers would be very long but mostly mysogonistic societal attitudes from birth.

But how do we deal with this. Just blaming teenage boys doesn't address the problem

Delphinium20 and that is why we will never progress. Of course the girls aren't asking for it, but we have allowed a society where girls baring all is to be celebrated. This is not the fault of teenage boys. In media girls that show all are celebrated, the kardashians have hammered it home. Even non conformists such as Ellish have folded.

I don't think I have just blamed teenage boys. I blame the society they grow up in. I blame the parenting they get. I blame the lack of education they receive.

The solution is money. Fund education, fund the police to deal with the harassment, fund public campaigns around social media use, consent and attitudes towards women

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

I don't think I have just blamed teenage boys. I blame the society they grow up in. I blame the parenting they get. I blame the lack of education they receive.

The solution is money. Fund education, fund the police to deal with the harassment, fund public campaigns around social media use, consent and attitudes towards women

Agree but also fund the boys, help them find a role in society that rejects that once was admirable, accept that they learn differently and have different needs to girls, show them that they have a place in society alongside girls.

accept that they learn differently

There is no evidence boys learn differently to girls at all. This is total BS.

@bytheby yes! I wasted hours on snake but I don't think having a phone really had much of an impact on my life, either positive or negative tbh. I was barely on it- not compared to now! Bloody Mumsnet

I used to spend ages talking to strangers in chat rooms too- the good thing was my mum always knew about it because I told her! I would never have met anyone from it. But yes could have been very dodgy. It was mostly a laugh- me and my mates would find it hilarious to go in and start trolling the group chat until we got kicked out.

Agree about the constant access- this is the difference.

Waaaahhhh, how can parents stop their kids sexting etc when they aren't at home? Poor parents, they have no control... victims of circumstance are they?

STOP BUYING THE KIDS SMARTPHONES WITH DATA

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

accept that they learn differently

There is no evidence boys learn differently to girls at all. This is total BS.

You only need to spend 5 minutes on mn to understand that this is true. They don't expect to be needed, or to take on the care role, or sacrifice their career this is not their fault but societies. Blaming children will not solve this.

You only need to spend 5 minutes on mn to understand that this is true. They don't expect to be needed, or to take on the care role, or sacrifice their career this is not their fault but societies. Blaming children will not solve this.

I'm not blaming children. I'm also blaming society.

But boys do NOT learn differently to girls. The physical process of learning, retention, cognition is the same in boys as it is in girls.

Buy your 11 year old daughter a smartphone, accept she’s going to receive unsolicited dick pics and god knows what’s else. That’s the reality and the price to pay for ‘not letting her be the odd one out among her group of friends’.

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

You only need to spend 5 minutes on mn to understand that this is true. They don't expect to be needed, or to take on the care role, or sacrifice their career this is not their fault but societies. Blaming children will not solve this.

I'm not blaming children. I'm also blaming society.

But boys do NOT learn differently to girls. The physical process of learning, retention, cognition is the same in boys as it is in girls.

Hmm, I remember reading how learning sitting still benefits girls not boys, how standing desks can improve boys behaviour, how boys learn by side by side interaction. Equality does not mean treating everyone the same.

Most of that "research" is rubbish and doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It was based on asking boys what they prefer and didn't look at the impact on actual learning/retention of knowledge. This is now massively off topic but letting boys stand up for lessons isn't going to solve the problem!

It is so obvious that children and teenagers should not have mobile phones/lengthy internet access.

Why can't they all just have simple phones with a map function and a function to call home. Please can someone invent this.

Most adults, myself included, struggle to regulate their phone use so of course kids can't do it.

I so agree with this. Expressed brilliantly.

Well there are these smart watches that do as pp suggested

But stupid stupid parents are handing out smartphones at younger and younger ages

@Ducksurprise

Delphinium20 and that is why we will never progress. Of course the girls aren't asking for it, but we have allowed a society where girls baring all is to be celebrated. This is not the fault of teenage boys. In media girls that show all are celebrated, the kardashians have hammered it home. Even non conformists such as Ellish have folded.

But what you fail to realize is so fucking what if girls bare all and wear sexualized clothing...it still never, ever means they should be harassed, or abused for it. What girls wear or don't wear, has nothing to do with teen boys' horrid behavior. I thought we'd gone past the "what was she wearing" defense.

I would like to see a similar law to France where smartphone use is banned for under 15s while on school grounds. Too many secondaries are relying on kids bringing in smartphones for research /photographing the board to save photocopying etc to save money on tech.

I suspect that a lot of these boys see how their mums and dads behave. You only have to read the relationship forum to see that women expect men to watch porn and too many men have no qualms voicing misogynistic comments about their wives looks etc while big contributing to the boring bits of family life like cleaning. That kind of man is probably a sex pest who is groping and humiliating their wife and the kids are hearing and seeing all this. If you have married parents and your dad is on WhatsApp group exchanging porn pics then you are going to start thinking that this is okay.

There's a militant minority who think that sex education in year 5 is too soon and that their children will be scared and scarred by their info. Learning about it in year 7 when most kids have a smartphone and social media is way too late yet they really think that their children shouldn't even know what a period is. The reality is that kids in year 6/7 are exposed to far more explicit content about life and some parents need a reality check and take the lead in discussing things. Even if their children manage to dodge things in y6, things are much more "advanced" in y7.

But stupid stupid parents are handing out smartphones at younger and younger ages

Lots of parents under the mistaken notion that their children can't view porn on their phones but getting around filters is not very difficult especially once they discover tricks like VPNs.

@Librariesmakeshhhhappen I'm so sorry for your son. That is awful and so wrong.