Maya's judgement Thursday 10th June 10.30am

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Wishing her the very best of luck. twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402310977115279362?s=20

I'll be absolutely gutted if the original decision isn't overturned, but at least her case has let a lot of sunlight in.

Keeping everything crossed for Maya.

I can't believe that at the time of the first judgement / JKR backlash I believed that this was about Maya refusing to use a colleague's preferred pronouns.

I don't think that's the gotcha people seem to think it is. Men can be bisexual and who he would personally choose as a sexual partner really isn't the point. I know men's sexual entitlement is a priority for most men but it doesn't need to become the centre of every single argument!

But it's not their sense of sexual entitlement you're trying to get at with that 'gotcha'. It's getting them to realise the cognitive dissonance of the fact that they almost certainly have been happy pootling along thinking TWAW because it's kind to say so and what harm does it do anyway. But that actually having sex with a TW... eek, no... turns out I don't think TWAW for those purposes. Of course men can be bisexual, but that certainly doesn't mean that the majority of TWAW-spouting husbands of GC MNers are.

I think they've scuppered their chance of an interview with her.

I hope they're now bitterly regretting their cowardice, and meetings are being held behind the scenes to talk about their remit and purpose going forward.

But women should have sex-based services and spaces. Why not?

A reminder to people who insist this is about Maya 'misgendering' people by using the wrong pronouns - she's misgendered exactly the same number of people that Mermaids have
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4246223-here-s-a-mermaids-fuck-up-to-brighten-your-sunday-morning

Sounds very apartheid. Not a long leap from: "She did define it later as people who believe skin colour is immutable and that white people should have white based services and spaces."

1. • how long a leap is it? Exactly? Can you quantify it please?
2. • the equivalent disadvantaged group in your example would be 'people of colour', not white people. Unless you're racist enough to think that POC have more privilege than white people.

If the judgement supports Maya, then all other sorts of beliefs that people may not agree with can be expressed as well without consequence

Yeah

People you don’t agree with are allowed to speak

Scary huh?

I admire Maya's composure so much. I'm trying not to stress eat while waiting for the announcement and she's managed to put together a nicely gif'd tweet and thank you to her team and supporters:

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402892858693128194

@lazylinguist

I don't think that's the gotcha people seem to think it is. Men can be bisexual and who he would personally choose as a sexual partner really isn't the point. I know men's sexual entitlement is a priority for most men but it doesn't need to become the centre of every single argument!

But it's not their sense of sexual entitlement you're trying to get at with that 'gotcha'. It's getting them to realise the cognitive dissonance of the fact that they almost certainly have been happy pootling along thinking TWAW because it's kind to say so and what harm does it do anyway. But that actually having sex with a TW... eek, no... turns out I don't think TWAW for those purposes. Of course men can be bisexual, but that certainly doesn't mean that the majority of TWAW-spouting husbands of GC MNers are.

There's probably lots of women they don't want to have sex with either. It doesn't mean they aren't women. Whether or not someone wants to have sex with someone isn't the point!

It's too exclusionary and divisive, versus inclusive.

So?

It is not illegal to exclude certain people from certain places / situations.

Everything crossed for Maya 🤞🤞🤞

I'm trying not to stress eat

I'm trying to work, but I am here instead

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

What's F5??

If the judgement supports Maya, then all other sorts of beliefs that people may not agree with can be expressed as well without consequence
You do realise this doesn't in any way follow, does it?

It's this specific belief that's in question re being protected, not "all" beliefs. Have you understood anything that's going on? By your logic, if she loses, then " no beliefs can be expressed without consequence".

Joanna cherry is razor sharp, isn't she? That was a woman who had no intention of being deflected from the actual point of Maya's case.

In terms of saying one is gender critical, I agree, that not everyone gets it. Largely because women and feminists will view gender as oppressive stereotypes, whereas pro trans organisations will say it's an identity. The fact that there is no following explanation, doesn't seem to count.

To shorthand it to the uninitiated and those not interested in the feminist analysis, I just say it's a belief that sex is based on biology, rather than a feeling in your head. And we segregate on the basis of biology, instead of segregating on the basis of people's individual feelings in their own heads.

It's more aligned to the explanation that trans people actually give, but shows it up for the unworkable issue it is.

It's more like age MishyJDI.

"She did define it later as people who believe age is immutable and that younger and older people should have age based services and spaces."

Note that the people having age based services are those that are more vulnerable/have different needs.

@PronounssheRa

I'm trying not to stress eat

I'm trying to work, but I am here instead

I'm not stress eating, here, F5ing like a seal hoping it brings fish, and reading ahead of my 11:00 meeting.

Nothing is being done well.

Good luck Maya

Everything crossed for Maya (and by extension, all of us) today.

I had loads I was going to do this last half-hour and instead I've been arguing on the internet as usual !
Obviously I can't start anything now!

@Cailin66

What's F5??

to refresh your computer window.

like in 'the olden days' where you didn't use smart devices.

I got a funny tummy waiting

Stress.

Bet maya feeling so much more

I too am thinking of Maya.

Yes, I’ve moved into screen refresh time!