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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya's judgement Thursday 10th June 10.30am

856 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/06/2021 18:13

Wishing her the very best of luck. twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402310977115279362?s=20

I'll be absolutely gutted if the original decision isn't overturned, but at least her case has let a lot of sunlight in.

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StillFemale · 09/06/2021 08:08

Thank-you Maya and Good luck

Alltheprettyseahorses · 09/06/2021 08:12

Best of luck, Maya. Either way, you've won. Look at what happened to Anne Sinnot - she 'lost' permission to bring a case but in the process the EHRC clarified Stonewall guidance was wrong and then the dominoes started to fall.

highame · 09/06/2021 08:12

Fingers crossed. If she isn't successful, the government will have to make some changes because it is now commonly held that free speech is under attack

Also, the Equal Bench book was highlighted as a big issue in this case, so I would expect it to be withdrawn and amended if Maya wins and even if she doesn't, it's time for a re-write

FannyCann · 09/06/2021 09:25

Just repeating what @TedImgoingmad said. Star

God knows where women would be today without Maya having fought her corner. There's a direct line from her bravery to JKR speaking out, and all the sunlight that has poured in since through the work of Sex Matters and the genius of the FOI campaign. We are all in your debt, Maya, you are a total legend, and a winner, whatever any court judgment says.

FindTheTruth · 09/06/2021 10:29

Bookmarking

The Judgment will be handed down by email at 10:30 am on Thursday 10 June 2021

Check back here then for more
hiyamaya.net/the-judgment/

ShirleyPhallus · 09/06/2021 10:32

Another voice wishing luck

GNCQ · 09/06/2021 10:39

Ugh it's so stomach wrenching.

If she does lose, it'll probably be on some sort of technicality rather than because of what she Tweeted, and we'll all be tied in knots again (much like how we were after the Anne Sinnott court case against ehrc)

Tomorrow will be a big day.

adviceseekingnamechanger · 09/06/2021 10:48

Ah Maya, you're amazing (if you're reading!) wishing you so much good luck. I can't believe this isn't being covered by the media much, it's such an important judgement.

RadandMad · 09/06/2021 10:58

Also feeling very nervous. Everything crossed here.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 09/06/2021 11:01

Another one crossing fingers. If Maya wins this then there are implications for Allison B and the Girl Guiding case.

MummBraTheEverLeaking · 09/06/2021 11:41

I think I'll just stay off Twitter tomorrow if things don't go well, the smug crowing will just give me the rage.

Everything crossed 🤞

Leaningtoweroflisa · 09/06/2021 11:55

Aargh, stupid tired brain, thought it was today and was getting twitchy as it why hadn’t appeared yet!

Good luck, Maya.

As heathspeedwell said wisely, she ha already won, regardless.

BaronessWrongCrowd · 09/06/2021 12:03

Good luck tomorrow, Maya.

Metacat · 09/06/2021 12:03

Riff on the original ruling. Easy to write, because there's so many parallels: 2 groups, transwomen and women, both at risk of being hurt. Yes, it's essential to consider how to protect the latter; what I find disturbing is the denial of any need to even acknowledge the former... The parallels are painful...

Judge Tayler said the tax expert was not entitled to ignore the legal rights of transgender people and the “enormous pain that can be caused by misgendering a person”. He concluded: “If a person has transitioned from male to female and has a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC), that person is legally a woman. That is not something Ms Forstater is entitled to ignore. Ms Forstater’s position is that even if a trans woman has a GRC, she cannot honestly describe herself as a woman. That belief is not worthy of respect in a democratic society. Even paying due regard to the qualified right to freedom of expression, people cannot expect to be protected if their core belief involves violating others’ dignity and creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating, or offensive environment for them.”

Judge Tayler COULD HAVE said HE was not entitled to ignore the legal rights of WOMEN and the “enormous pain that can be caused by ESSENTIALLY DENYING a person'S BIOLOGICAL SEX." He concluded: “If a person IS FEMALE, that person is legally a woman. That is not something I SHOULD BE entitled to ignore. DESPITE THIS, MY position is that, even if a trans woman IS DIFFERENT TO A NATAL WOMAN (AND ENTIRELY WORTHY OF RESPECT ON HER OWN TERMS), NO WOMAN NOW SHOULD BE PERMITTED TO honestly describe herself as a woman WITHOUT EXPANDING THE DEFINITION TO INCORPORATE MALE-BODIED PEOPLE AND ACCEPTING THE ASSOCIATED POTENTIAL FOR SEVERE DEGRADATION OF THE SEX-BASED LEGAL PROTECTIONS TO WHICH SHE IS ENTITLED. That belief is not worthy of respect in a democratic society. Even paying due regard to the qualified right to freedom of expression, people cannot expect to be protected if their core belief involves violating others’ dignity and creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating, or offensive AND POTENTIALLY LESS SAFE environment for them.”

Metacat · 09/06/2021 12:12

(Reverse former & latter!)

PearPickingPorky · 09/06/2021 12:15

@Metacat

(Reverse former & latter!)
Phew!

I was confused Grin

Igmum · 09/06/2021 12:49

Good luck. I have everything crossed

Lettera · 09/06/2021 13:48

Everything crossed, Maya!

Words can't express how much I admire your courage and tenacity. Much gratitude to your legal team too.

RoyalCorgi · 09/06/2021 14:44

I feel very nervous about it but hoping the fact that she's drawn attention to it means it's good news. Is that reading too much into it?

EyesOpening · 09/06/2021 15:13

@TedImgoingmad

God knows where women would be today without Maya having fought her corner. There's a direct line from her bravery to JKR speaking out, and all the sunlight that has poured in since through the work of Sex Matters and the genius of the FOI campaign. We are all in your debt, Maya, you are a total legend, and a winner, whatever any court judgment says.
Absolutely!
langclegflavoredbananamush · 09/06/2021 15:41

So much gratitude to Maya for all she's doing for us! The first ruling was so devastating, but it did bring the debate forward. On tenterhooks now, but either way the ruling goes, yet more light will be shed, more people will notice. Thank you so much Maya!

StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind · 09/06/2021 15:54

Fingers crossed for you Maya 🤞 and thank you for all you've done. I doubt very much I'd have had your bravery and am so grateful to you, to JKR, to everyone who has put their necks on the line and spoken out for women.

You have all increased my awareness of these issues massively, which has led to me emailing my DC's school today about their PSHE curriculum and gender issues. Just a tiny little thing to have done but you've inspired so many others.

fantastaballs · 09/06/2021 16:56

Good luck Maya!

FannyCann · 09/06/2021 17:38

I've just been listening to this Graham Linehan chat with Naomi Cunningham aka Legal Feminist and she seems cautiously optimistic veering towards quite confident.
About the last ten minutes of the show. (Also talking about the FOI campaign and Sex Matters, I think she comes on about half way through the whole thing).

It was good to listen to her and here's hoping she's right.

howard97A · 09/06/2021 18:28

Wishing you good luck and good justice, Maya