So, what has suddenly happened for the tide to change?

[rabbitwoman]

So, I have spent a while reading through the twitter replies to Stonewall, Michael cashman and mermaids.

There is NO support for them. Really, none. All the @ s are damning - and along with recent events and all the organisations leaving Stonewall's diversity champion scheme, the tide really does seem to have suddenly turned. I am looking for the people supporting Stonewall et al but supportive tweets are few and, quite honestly, not very coherent.

It seems so different to just a few short months ago when no one would say anything.

What I don't understand is how come now? Stonewall have been doing this for a really long time, we have been pointing it out for years, not just months, so what has suddenly happened that decision makers have suddenly noticed and decided to do something?

I feel a bit wary. Also, angry that so many people have suffered, lost jobs and work, and there will probably be no recourse for them - no one will ever apologise to Glinner, will they? Will Daniel Radcliffe, Emily Watson and Rupert Grint and Eddie redmayne ever apologise to jkr?

Surely, if anyone with any sense at Stonewall wants a way out of this, the best thing to do would be to say, you know what? We were wrong. We got this wrong. So what can we do, how can we solve it, we are sorry and ready to listen?

So many insightful comments here. Just want to add another vote for MN as a force for good. I would be cancelled and banished from my professional circle if I even admitted to having a MN login (genuinely, not joking) so it’s clearly a cause for concern to those on the anti-woman train.

As an aside, people on our work forum are banned for using racial slurs, trans- or homophobia, or most other hate speech. But it’s always fine to say t**f, Karen etc. Nobody minds at all.

Like PPs have said, JKR’s vilification was a huge factor in shining light on this issue. That made headlines all around the world. If she’d backed down and apologised like so many before her, it wouldn’t have had anywhere near the illuminating effect it did. Thank you JKR for your backbone of steel!

@WallaceinAnderland

This is not sudden. It's been years in the making. It's the fruit of the labour of many fantastic, brave and financially ruined people who fought and fought to shed light on this, who refused to be silenced.

It's a very sad victory because none of it needed to happen. Children have been captured by this ideology. Parents have had their protective rights taken away. Safeguarding has been dismantled. Sportswomen have lost their one and only shot at success. Women in prisons and hospitals have lost their right to dignity and safety.

Women have lost jobs and been threatened with rape and death. People have been 'cancelled'. It's shocking that this was allowed and that it went on for so long. And who has benefitted from it? No-one. Literally no-one. All Stonewall has achieved is division.

I think the rising number of legal challenges and upcoming Olympics probably helped to bring this under scrutiny too.

There are not words enough to thank all those people who have spoken out when others were too afraid or unable, who have toiled so relentlessly to raise funds to support legal challenges, who have soldiered on when it's been enough over the years to make anyone weep.

What a powerful post WallaceinAnderland Thank you. The casualties are (and continue to be) immense

www.economist.com/international/2021/06/05/a-backlash-against-gender-ideology-is-starting-in-universities
Saw this today of anyone interested

There's a piece of dialogue in Hemingway where one character asks "How did you go bankrupt?” The other character replies: “Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.”

This seems to be what's happening here - over the past few years, lots of people have chipped away at the TRA edifice. We've made tiny dents. There's been Maya's case, JK Rowling's essay, the legal challenge to the Oxfordshire trans toolkit, the dozens of meetings across the country, the campaign groups like FPFW, WPUK and Sex Matters, Posie Parker's takedown of Adrian Harrop, the Karen White case, then more recently the decision by the govt not to reform the GRA, the DfE's updated guidance on RSE telling schools not to use dodgy external providers, Keira Bell's victory...and much more that I've forgotten.

I think Stonewall were so cocky that they over-reached themselves. They thought they couldn't fail. But in the last few weeks, a series of things happened all at once: Matthew Parris and Simon Fanshawe both writing damning articles, the Uni of Essex report, the legal attack on LGBA, the awful comparison by Nancy Kelley of gc feminists as being like antisemites - and then various organisations, one by one, announcing they were going to leave the Diversity Champions scheme.

It does feel, like a giant Jenga tower, as if it's all starting to come tumbling down. But I don't want to be too confident because too many powerful people have a vested interest in keeping it going. There will be a strong fightback. Let's not relax just yet.

It’s a great topic for study

Change in language, politics and legislation by small amounts in one way then the next

One reason that can’t be ignored: it’s starting to affect men.

We had superstraight and many gay men are feeling under attack too. Gay men are well represented in positions of power and can make their voice heard.

ChattyLion, that was such a powerful, insightful post. I agree completely that the feeling we were starting to get proper traction came when the link was made to free speech, not just disadvantaging women.

Really fecking annoying that disadvantaging half the population isn't considered serious on its own, but hey, we go with what works...

It’s a great topic for study

I see this topic as a future module in A Level/degree level History or Sociology.

Those lucky future students having this thread as material! And so many primary sources in the papers and online.

I can’t remember what the recent news story but the line was whatever it was was ‘at odds with feminists’ so the thing didn’t happen

I studied feminism over twenty years ago and I think it’s the first time I’ve felt real change attached to feminists as a powerful group. It was nice to see.

I think the report made over University of Essex no-plat forming academics was the real tipping point.

@LaLaLandIsNoFun

I think the report made over University of Essex no-plat forming academics was the real tipping point.

Yes this is it I think. But also what makes me worried because it seems to hinge on the legality of their advice. I'm expecting stonewall to now turn round and say the equality act isn't fit for purpose and they could push it completely away from us. That's the danger.

I think it's the accumulation of a lot of little drips turning into a flood.

As well as the things mentioned, the push for changing language has had an impact. People revolt when lobbyists try to change their plain, everyday words. Things like "chestfeeding" really point out how ridiculous the whole ideology is.

The impact on women doesn’t seem to be the primary driver for change, but practicality matters too. If opposition to genderism can highlight how misogynistic, sexist and homophobic antiscience and anti safeguarding genderism is then that will wake up some people, which is still better than nothing being done at government and at grassroots level. It will still be up to ordinary women and grassroots groups to continue to join the dots for government and write to our MPs etc and lobby them on our own issues including around genderism. Nobody else will do it for us. The cause for celebration though is that crowd funded legal cases seem to be a really effective action to take at the moment so I hope they’ll be concluded positively while government is in this current sceptical/listening mode. Because there will be counter- actions from the other side of this debate too.

Excellent points Chatty

@Angelica789

One reason that can’t be ignored: it’s starting to affect men.

We had superstraight and many gay men are feeling under attack too. Gay men are well represented in positions of power and can make their voice heard.

Yes I agree with this sadly.

Agree that although this feels like the tide is suddenly turning, it's only thanks to the brave actions of clever women who spoke out years ago that the ball started rolling.

I wish Magdaelen Berns was here to see what a difference she has made. This is five years old but has perhaps never been more relevant:

Magdalen said it first about Stonewall:

"Your minds are so open your brains have fallen out. Lesbians exist and this is not it."

@heathspeedwell

Magdalen said it first about Stonewall:

"Your minds are so open your brains have fallen out. Lesbians exist and this is not it."

I really miss her and yes - it's very upsetting that's she's no longer with us to see this

Also, while I am feeling enraged, is it true that poor woman in Scotland has had her crowdfunder shut down? If not, I'd be grateful for guidance towards it, because I am so livid about all this that my shovel is waiting.

Sorry about your deletion, maybe this next dew weeks will be an opportunity for the Mumsnet mods to review some of the rules in light of recent government developments?

Anyway the good news is that Marion has already reached her target and doesn't need more digging just yet.

twitter.com/millar_marion/status/1401464837029470211?s=20

Few weeks not dew weeks, sorry.

Cheers, Sam and Heath.
I'll keep the shovel ready, however.

I think the Keira Bell ruling was a big turning point.