Schoolgirl, 15, ‘stopped from using toilet while on period’

[WinnieSmith]

Schoolgirl, 15, ‘stopped from using toilet while on period’ then put in seclusion

metro.co.uk/2021/05/31/schoolgirl-15-stopped-from-using-toilet-while-on-her-period-14680071/

"...we do ask that students make every effort to do this during break and lunch time to minimise disruption to lessons..."

Agree @SirSamuelVimes
Children are taught to try and use the toilet during the break time starting from reception/Year 1 to avoid disruption to lessons. My own children (usually well behaved) used to go to the toilet as an excuse to escape the lesson for 5 min. Others also tried to join them at the same time.

As a teacher I’ll just say that usually there’s a lot more to these stories than meets the eye. Even with a no toilet rule, if a girl asks who wouldn’t usually make demands, and gives you the look, you let them go. Or they can discreetly tell you (harder with a male teacher of course). Detentions would occur where there has been stroppiness, screeching “I’m ON my PERIOD” for maximum dramatic effect (usually roping in other screechers too), stomping out of lessons - all this is commonplace among a certain type of student and as they’re also usually prone to lying through their teeth at every given moment you’ve no idea if the period thing is true.

So while we’re all picturing a meek, shy girl who was too scared to ask and has been punished, which would be terrible, that’s quite likely not to be the case, especially with a mum who’s “livid” all over the papers.

Did you see the last line of the report? In principle, I agree it's atrocious, but it feels like there might be more to this story:

‘We have spoken with this student and her mother regarding the particular incident and have explained our rationale for the seclusion – this was because of her disrespect to a member of staff upon leaving the classroom, without permission.’

We only have 50 minute lessons. I have at least 5 kids a lesson ask, if I said yes then I would probably have 10. There are 70 teachers in my school so that’s 350 kids wandering around unsupervised every lesson, covid bubbles will be crossed..... it isn’t usually the well behaved pupils asking either, it’s the kids that vandalise the toilets and set the fire alarms off to cause maximum disruption. It’s unmanageable so they have to be told no. If they are flooding within 50 minutes, the longest they would need to wait then I would expect them to have a medical pass.

Due to covid breaks and lunches are half way through lessons currently so twice a day the longest they would go is 25 minutes.

These kind of clearly unacceptable situations are entirely of the schools making by adopting totally draconian behaviour policies. I went to a school where you just told the teacher you were popping to the loo. It wasn’t set up as some big battle and so it didn’t become one. Same for uniform. The constant crushing of teens as human beings isn’t preparing for the world of work. I’d strongly advise my kids to leave any job where they were controlled in the ways they are at school. Absolutely appalling.

@Scabz
But why hadn't she gone at break

I take it you have never had a period? Or never had a sudden flood that means you have to go then to sort yourself out, not wait an hour until the end of a lesson?

This is appalling

@Ohpleasenotagain

Agree *@SirSamuelVimes* Children are taught to try and use the toilet during the break time starting from reception/Year 1 to avoid disruption to lessons. My own children (usually well behaved) used to go to the toilet as an excuse to escape the lesson for 5 min. Others also tried to join them at the same time.

If children are trying to escape lessons by going to the loo, then the school has bigger problems. Force and coercion aren’t great learning environments. Motivated and interest kids don’t try to escape learning on the whole. Highly recommend reading some ASNeil for a paradigm shift.

I teach sixth form. Students are freely at college through choice. They like their subjects and mostly enjoy lessons. We have an informal, first-names teacher-student relationship. There are no detentions and no coercion. They are free to go to the toilet whenever they want and can go home between lessons.

Some students still go to the loo almost every lesson just for a wander about! If you’re not in a classroom you really don’t know what it’s like.

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime

We had a staff meeting and a male member of staff asked if girls were on their period could they wait or did they have to go. And the FEMALE member of SLT said that no it wouldn't be an emergency and that they can wait and it doesn't come on suddenly. The school do offer toilet passes for medical need but that relies on the child having been to the Dr's about it.

I couldn't believe it, how little did she know about the female body to come to that conclusion. Personally if a girl in my class needs to go I let them and will take the flak if they get caught.

Did you speak up and tell the other woman she was wrong?

You don’t tell SLT they’re wrong in a meeting, no matter what level of shit they’re spouting, unless you’re extremely brave or foolhardy. Might as well paint a target on your head.

If they are flooding within 50 minutes, the longest they would need to wait then I would expect them to have a medical pass.

It might not always be a flooding issue that requires seeing a Dr.
I started my periods at 14 and remember one of my first ones I thought it had finished, so removed my pad. 10 mins in to the next lesson I realised I’d made a big mistake. I actually didn’t ask to go to the loo because I was too mortified to try and fish a pad out of my bag and shove it up my sleeve. Plus I was worried that when I stood up there’d be obvious blood. But if I had asked to go, I hope I’d have been allowed - it wasn’t a naughtiness thing, it wasn’t because I hadn’t gone at break, it wasn’t because I was flooding, it was just inexperience with periods which you are going to get in the younger years of secondary school.

So while we’re all picturing a meek, shy girl who was too scared to ask and has been punished, which would be terrible, that’s quite likely not to be the case, especially with a mum who’s “livid” all over the papers

Do only meek girls get periods?
Are periods pretty disruptive for some years until you are used to them, for some people disruptive all their menstruating lives?
If it's a problem with children often leaving class to wander around, should all menstruating girls suffer for this?
And to then punish a girl meek or not for needing the loo , that's ok in your school?
Out of sheer curiosity does this school have mixed sex loos? If anyone knows?

@motogogo

We used "on my period" to duck out of class and to skip pe, I'm sure this generation is no different. With modern sanpro it is very unusual for women to need to change more often than 2 hours (yes a few do but rare)

HAHAHAHAHA.

Bitter laugh.

One in ten women have endometriosis, and yes for most symptoms begin in teens.

And there are other conditions that cause heavy periods, too.

I’m not sure how that’s “rare”.

If kids going to the loo during lessons (roaming the halls, vandalism, etc.) then why not look at ways to prevent those things rather than stopping kids from going to the loo?

If it's a problem with children often leaving class to wander around, should all menstruating girls suffer for this?

How would you solve the problem then? We can’t have masses of children walking around unsupervised because it is unsafe, we can’t afford to employ more staff to be on duty so what is the answer?

But why hadn't she gone at break

Could any woman seriously ask this question? You have no control over menstrual flow.

I’m a primary teacher and have taught in schools where going to the toilet in lesson time is forbidden, and others where it’s no big deal. Personally, I remind the children to go on their way out to break and on their way back in. Some younger children still need to go during lessons as they don’t go unless they get the feeling to go, where’s older ones can go ‘just in case’. For older girls who may be starting their periods, they can go when they ask, but so it’s not obvious, the older boys are also allowed to go when they ask. I’ve had children who can’t go for a poo when there’s other children around, so need to go in lesson time when it’s quieter. I currently have 1 girl who is so mortified at using the toilet when someone else is in there that she keeps getting water infections. She gets sent on ‘errands’ a couple of times a day and nips to the toilet whilst on her ‘errand’.

In secondary schools, the use of toilets during lesson time rule is open to abuse, as are all rules. That’s what teens like to do - break rules, push boundaries. The best way to deal with this is to reduce the number of rules and put systems in place that actually work. So for using the toilet in lessons, I’d have a member of staff based near the toilets to keep an eye on behaviour - if there’s a couple of students in already, they wait outside. Students will miss some learning time, but that’s their loss, not other students. Remove the rule, you remove the desire to break the rule.

If they are flooding within 50 minutes, the longest they would need to wait then I would expect them to have a medical pass.

Dear god.

Have you ever been a teenager with insanely heavy periods?

Good luck getting a GP to take that seriously and provide anything for you. It took me 10 years to get an endometriosis diagnosis and most of those years were spent being patronised by GPs telling me my periods were normal.

The trouble with having someone monitoring toilets is then you’re basically paying a full-time member of staff just to watch the toilets! No school has the budget for that. And if they’re doing something else as well (reception, pastoral, admin), they don’t really have the time to watch the toilets properly.

Happened to my 11 year old niece a few months ago, she asked to go to the toilet, teacher said no, she leaked massively through to the chair. She rang my sister and she went home, she was sobbing, so upset it was just heartbreaking.

Rang the school, they weren't much use. She has now been told to ignore the teacher and if she needs to go just to walk out.

In an ideal world every classroom would have a small cloakroom area with a toilet cubicle off it. That would solve tonnes of problems. But that’s too obvious - I have no idea when they don’t do this in new build schools though.

This isnt a new problem, so why are schools still unable to monitor the toilets so that the students who are skiving get sent back to the classroom and the students who need to use them can do so without being harassed and bullied?

This rule fills me with anger and I'd never follow it, despite teaching for more than 18 years. You do get piss takers but you, as an adult, can tell if a student is wanting to skive (or drag another student from a class and fight them, set fire to another part of the building etc - all true!) and when they need the toilet.

I've worked in a school where your pass had to be used to access the toilets magnetic locks and you would get a snotty email to discuss how many times it was used per week. I had a delightful conversation about flooding and clots just to shut them up.

Thankfully I work in a school where we use judgement, and I've had no complaints yet (I'm now the SLT that doesn't send shitty emails).

If it's anything like my dds school, it's very busy and they barely have time at break/lunch to do much more than bare essentials, and if a heavy period is difficult to limit the necessity of going to the loo to just the available break times in the day - are there three?

Another teacher here. Most girls DON'T flood their tampons and pads on a regular basis. Most people have periods that are sufficiently manageable to fit in between lesson breaks. Most teachers have the skill and discernment to make judgement calls about who really needs to go and who is just pissing around. And most schools aren't properly able to "tell their side" when the story hits the papers. Because safeguarding and data protection regulations prevent them from sharing that a student has already sworn at 3 teachers that day/was caught smoking in the loos 2 weeks ago/has been accused of bullying younger pupils in the toilets. If your daughter's periods are sufficiently heavy or unpredictable that they are not manageable within the normal school day, you need to send a note to the HOY. I have occasionally taught students who have a note on their file "must be allowed to use toilet at any time". This is how schools manage it; not by letting every student go whenever they want.

Gosh, it's almost like schools and their systems are built for the default males, isn't it?

Girls get periods, which are often unpredictable, painful and difficult. They don't conform to timetables.

I appreciate it may not be easy, but I expect a school that doesn't have a big discipline problem is going to have less problems with people skiving and taking the mickey. I have worked in schools, I do understand some of the problems. A better school sees behaviour like that as a symptom of perhaps deeper issues and gets guidance to look into it.

Perhaps it's even a sign that a school needs to reassess its whole ethos?

We had some teachers whose classes we'd skive to a ridiculous degree. Some we wouldn't dream of it. And it wasn't the shouty, strict ones necessarily that kept discipline, it was the ones that engendered respect, connection and goodwill.

The only teacher at secondary that allowed us to go mid lesson was Science who said if you hold on you can get kidney damage, rather you missed a few minutes of class than suffer that