Schoolgirl, 15, ‘stopped from using toilet while on period’

[WinnieSmith]

Schoolgirl, 15, ‘stopped from using toilet while on period’ then put in seclusion

metro.co.uk/2021/05/31/schoolgirl-15-stopped-from-using-toilet-while-on-her-period-14680071/

"...we do ask that students make every effort to do this during break and lunch time to minimise disruption to lessons..."

There speaketh the parent who's never worked in a school.

Or seemingly never worked in a job with a uniform policy or strict rules about leaving your position (there are too many jobs To mention where it is impossible or impractical to just ‘nip to the loo’).

My school locked our bathrooms and we weren't allowed to tie jumpers around waists, so if you bled through everyone saw. We also weren't allowed to take our bags or have food in lesson so there was a lot of silently trying to take tampons/pads out of bags and hide them up sleeves. Oh the shame we felt.

So to go, you had to first convince a teacher. It was near impossible, until one day we were standing behind our desks waiting for permission to leave for next lesson. When a boy asked to go to the loo and the teacher told him no as usual. But he couldn't hold it and pissed everywhere. They let us go more after that.

The keys for the loos were kept in the office, so after convincing the teacher you needed it, you then had to convince the reception staff on the other side of the school. After that grilling they'd give you a key attached to a giant block of wood so you wouldn't steal it, and made it really hard to actually unlock the door.
By this point, with my heavy periods, I'd basically bleed through everything. I had to keep spare clothes in my locker.

The kind if parebt who doesn't adequately equip their child will not be a parent willing to ask fir toilet pass though are they .

Its taken me ages to wort out a toilet pass for my dd. They dont make it easy even if its disability related

The kind if parebt who doesn't adequately equip their child will not be a parent willing to ask fir toilet pass though are they

No, but if their parent is less than great, the pupil will likely have high involvement with the pastoral team. They can issue one very quickly.

So put faith in an understaffed underfunded pastoral team reliant on students speaking up?

What could possibly go wrong

Its taken me ages to wort out a toilet pass for my dd. They dont make it easy even if its disability related

I’m so sorry, it shouldn’t have been that hard. My sons school didn’t even want to see a GPs note (I imagine that is very little comfort to you).

No, but if their parent is less than great, the pupil will likely have high involvement with the pastoral team. They can issue one very quickly.

Exactly this.
The children that struggle are the ones who are NOT under the radar.
Those who are seen as not requiring intervention. They are left to fend for themselves.

So put faith in an understaffed underfunded pastoral team reliant on students speaking up? What could possibly go wrong

That is a more than fair point.

Trouble is, if we let every kid go to the toilet whenever they feel like it. You will easily have 100-150 unsupervised kids roaming the school freely.
As you said “why could go wrong”

Schools and teachers are in an incredibly difficult position with this.

Or do you think she should have sat and bled over her chair?

Really? Is that what you think I said? I said "You were right to go when you did - if you genuinely needed - and the teacher was right to give you detention for disobedience." I did not say she had to justify herself or explain anything. But, yes, she has to ask permission to leave the class. I understand and agree with what teachers on this thread are saying about the issues that arise when pupils leave the classrooms during lesson times.

So how do you balance a girl’s legitimate need to access the toilet, and the school rules in place to safeguard children, staff and learning?

If any child keeps getting detentions, the reason needs to be investigated. What could be done to support a girl in this situation? A toilet pass? Access to a different toilet? Or is this something that needs to be supported outside the school - by visiting the GP or trying different sanpro for example?

Two of my dc have had invisible conditions resulting in their not always being able to wait until break or use the toilet during breaks, and their school has been very supportive. One was given a toilet pass, the other was given the school’s equivalent of a Radar key, despite not being disabled. One of them did have to go through this going during lesson and thus getting detention first.

@WhenSheWasBad

Its taken me ages to wort out a toilet pass for my dd. They dont make it easy even if its disability related

I’m so sorry, it shouldn’t have been that hard. My sons school didn’t even want to see a GPs note (I imagine that is very little comfort to you).

Same here.

I went to an all-girls school. They allowed us to go when we asked, but we had to make up the time missed either during breaks or after school, unless there was a disability. It meant we kept toilet visits to a minimum and, because we just made up the time, rather than a full detention, it wasn’t seen so much as a punishment.
If we had an accident, we had to handwash our clothes in the home economics classroom during break.

Normal periods = go outside lesson time
Heavy unpredictable periods/medical condition = get a note
Teachers to use professional judgement and discretion.
Have you read the article? This was not a child who asked nicely and then bled through her clothing, this was a child who was rude to her teacher. In fact, from the article ut seems that the period angle was only added in by the mum as an afterthought. Too many girls use periods as a "gotcha" to be allowed to leave lessons whenever they want. It's their fault that those few girls who who genuinely need to go are then not allowed.

We have one senior yea her on call every hour in our secondary school, but they have the job of pacing the school with their wallow talkie (waiting for calls to come through about problematic children) and walking the circuit of the site is about a mile.

We have this. The first question when stopped is ‘where should you be now? The second is ‘Who gave you permission to leave class?’ Swiftly followed by an e-mail reminding us that we should not be allowing students to leave lessons to use the toilet.

As I said above, I always let them go.
It’s against school policy & I send them with a note. If I don’t I would have parents ringing up complaining.
Having said that, God forbid anything happened whilst they are out of class. It would be my responsibility. I would get parents complaining at best and would be disciplined myself at worst.

The easiest way is to tell the majority of students to always use the toilet at break/lunch or in between lessons.
Those who need to go in an emergency or those with passes can go more frequently.
It’s crazy but safeguarding is what drives these rules and the system does not work for teachers. They are damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

I’ve just remembered- My DD’s school had a a staffed office outside one toilet block which was open throughout the day.
All other toilets were locked.
If a child needed the loo during lessons they would go there, hand note in and their name was logged.
If they were a very frequent visitor during lesson time parents were informed that there may be a problem.

Two problems there.

1. It didn’t stop students getting a note from their teacher and just having a wander around ( ie not actually going to the toilet block).
2. It was a mixed sex block which the children hated.

Have you read the article? This was not a child who asked nicely and then bled through her clothing, this was a child who was rude to her teacher. In fact, from the article ut seems that the period angle was only added in by the mum as an afterthought. Too many girls use periods as a "gotcha" to be allowed to leave lessons whenever they want. It's their fault that those few girls who who genuinely need to go are then not allowed.

THIS.
Another example of the minority of students messing things up for the majority.

It's all just so long winded. In college I'd grab my bag, say excuse me and go to the normal unlocked loos. Finished and back in class in just a few minutes. In school, a simple trip to the loo could take twenty minutes because of the hoops they made us jump through.

I'm not sure I can blame the girl for being less than polite. It's degrading and dehumanising to be sitting in your own blood being told you can't go to the loo. If she wasn't afforded basic respect why should anyone expect that from her in return. Teachers using their own discretion is great in theory, but they get it wrong.

My periods as a teenager/in school lasted 2.5-3 weeks and were quite heavy for at least 2 of those weeks. So tbh, even if it’s a female student asking to go frequently for a few weeks it could well be period related.

I went to an all girls grammar and as far as I can remember, there was an expectation that you’d go to the loo at lunch and break, but if requested in class you’d generally be allowed to go. I don’t remember anyone having a leakage because they weren’t allowed to go (though I certainly had a few close calls as I learned to navigate periods). But skiving/messing around in the toilets was pretty rare at my school anyway.

It's all just so long winded

I agree.
If only ALL students went only when they actually needed to (not just for a wander) didn’t disappear and have the pastoral team walking the school looking for them, didn’t vandalise, smoke or vape in the toilets everyone would be free to go as and when.

[quote Mumoblue]@DdraigGoch

Weirdly, it was more female teachers than male. I think the female ones thought we were lying more, there were certain male teachers that would just go pale at the mere mention of a period and probably didn’t want to risk getting blood on their chairs.[/quote]
That was what I was thinking when I asked the question. Female teachers remembering "swinging the lead" in their own school days whereas the male ones being too embarrassed to enquire further.

@GravityFalls

As a teacher I’ll just say that usually there’s a lot more to these stories than meets the eye. Even with a no toilet rule, if a girl asks who wouldn’t usually make demands, and gives you the look, you let them go. Or they can discreetly tell you (harder with a male teacher of course). Detentions would occur where there has been stroppiness, screeching “I’m ON my PERIOD” for maximum dramatic effect (usually roping in other screechers too), stomping out of lessons - all this is commonplace among a certain type of student and as they’re also usually prone to lying through their teeth at every given moment you’ve no idea if the period thing is true.

So while we’re all picturing a meek, shy girl who was too scared to ask and has been punished, which would be terrible, that’s quite likely not to be the case, especially with a mum who’s “livid” all over the papers.

I think all girls should be able to go to the loo when they need it. Not just the shy meek ones. Also it’s really shitty to reinforce the idea that Giles have to be passive, apologetic and meek to get their BASIC NEEDS met. I don’t care if she’s was the biggest bitch in the school, she deserves to be able to use the toilet when she needs to.

@sashh

How would you solve the problem then? We can’t have masses of children walking around unsupervised because it is unsafe, we can’t afford to employ more staff to be on duty so what is the answer?

You limit the toilets that can be used and lock the others. Depending on the size and layout of the school you have one toilet that can be used mid lesson, next the HT office or an admin office.

You could make the toilets to be used the accessible ones so the student has to get a key (from the teacher or the office) and the door automatically locks when they leave.

I've done lots of supply, some schools have doors that can only be opened with an ID card, if you have that system then you can automatically lock toilet doors so people can get out but not in unless they have 'permission' on their ID card.

Most schools have SIMS or some thing similar, so you can track who is going to the toilet every lesson and investigate why.

My school went through a period where toilet vandalism was a significant problem (particularly in the male toilets). So they did close all bar one set and have a rota of staff to keep track of people going in and out.

That wouldn't work now though, covid has created a need for segregation between year groups.

@sharksarecool

To those who support all girls being allowed to leave lessons all the time because it's impossible to manage periods any other way: do you think some careers should be closed off to women gor rhis reason? Because I'm pretty sure jobs like surgeons or bus drivers won't be able ti facilitate sudden downing of tools or pulling over into a layby to accommodate menstrual cycles. And didn't women of the past have to fight for the right to do these jobs, against men who used our periods as one of the reasons why we couldn't do things? Are we really suggesting that women cannot be relied on to perform any role which requires us to be away from a toilet for longer than 50 minutes? Bloody hell, I hope this isn't what 5th wave feminism is going to look like!

I suspect that bus operators are less flexible but on the trains our employers would far rather that drivers concentrated on the job than on their bodily functions so stopping a train in the middle of nowhere to use the toilet would be an acceptable last resort if the alternative is getting distracted and risking a SPAD. Obviously it is incredibly rare though.

I think it's absolutely disgusting.

I'm 28 and have suffered endometriosis all my life which led to bleeding through my school uniform/carrying around extra clean knickers/school trousers.

It wasn't this bad 15 years ago when I was in secondary school but my parent still had to write a letter to my teachers explaining that for 7 days out of the month I will need to be excused if I need the toilet no questions asked and luckily my teachers were understanding.

I think all girls should be able to go to the loo when they need it. Not just the shy meek ones. Also it’s really shitty to reinforce the idea that Giles have to be passive, apologetic and meek to get their BASIC NEEDS me

It is possible for a girl to not be rude and disrespectful without also being shy/meek/passive/apologetic etc.