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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Liz Truss urges official withdrawal from Stonewall diversity scheme

238 replies

BattyOrange · 31/05/2021 02:52

Sorry, I don't have a share token but www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liz-truss-urges-official-withdrawal-from-stonewall-diversity-scheme-9df7pvsrn

Basically, Liz Truss "is pushing for all government departments to withdraw from Stonewall’s employment scheme following a row over transgender rights." because "she shared the concerns raised by the EHRC over the scheme’s value for money, particularly as the civil service has its own in-house workplace diversity programme."

Whether or not the reasons stated are true (I have my doubts) this is a good thing!

OP posts:
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TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 31/05/2021 15:48

@TheFnozwhowasmirage

My conservative MP will be crying into her rainbow courses tissues when she sees this. She's had many meetings with Stonewall and Mermaids and rebuked me for expressing my concern.Then stopped replying to me when I asked further questions. Would it be polite to email her,asking her to pass my thanks on to Liz Truss? I'd hate to be thought rude.😉
If you contact your MP re a matter concerning a minister, your MP has to pass your message on.

So I think this would be an excellent idea. And deeply polite of course 😂

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 31/05/2021 15:51

@Voice0fReason

There is a very long way to go until women's rights are properly protected but this is a step in the right direction and seems to be gaining momentum. Very, very good news.
It’s like a loosening of the stranglehold that Stonewall et al have had on the establishment (and therefore on society at large) for years now.

Their hands aren’t off our collective neck yet but the hold is definitely being loosened.

Oh happy day!

stumbledin · 31/05/2021 15:53

Much as I would like to think Liz Truss and others in the Tory party have been swept away by feminist logic this is part of the Tory strategy that is attempting to reverse the concept of identity politics.

So in the same way as they have tried to reframe what racism is, ie not something actually experienced or practiced by individuals, but rather a set of economic and social situations that put some people (who happen to be from minority communities) at a disadvantage.

This is why they can support the reality of women being that of biology, as it as "fact".

Their opposition to Stonewall is as much part of their politcal rejection of Labour policies, ie there are no real victims just people who dont take advantage of opportunities ( which they claim low taxes and commercial enterprise provide everyone has!)

This all came up when she gave a speech about the role of the equalities committee - with a particular emphasis that policy should not be decided or directed by a special interest group (eg Stonewall, but could also mean any women's group that somehow had the same sphere of influence as Stonewall - and I am afraid FWR is no where near that).

Of course the idea that special interest groups shouldn't influence policy somehow doesn't somehow seem to cover personal friends of Tory ministers who have a commercial interest to promote!

So I suspect on one level it is just about money, because I dont think that the Tories are going to turn into fully fledged GC feminists!

And of course will just lead, much to the delight of TRAs that GC feminists are just a part of right wing politics.

But it will be very, very interesting to see how many large organisations and charities take note of this. So many of them are so heavily invested in the Stonewall model. Even the NHS.

Does anyone know if any other papers have reported this, because if it is just the Times which is behind a paywall it isn't exactly going to become common knowledge.

Mollyollydolly · 31/05/2021 15:53

Please at least email her your thanks - I've just done so and cc'd in my Labour MP and Keir Starmer, pointing out they ignore all my correspondence on this and related issues. Let her see the support and let Labour see it as well.

stumbledin · 31/05/2021 16:03

I see the daily mail is now reporting the story coming from the Times.

BlueBrush · 31/05/2021 17:16

OK - so I've written emails to a couple of the organisations that are Diversity Champions that are close to me. One of them is my employer, and I don't think I'm quite there yet.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 31/05/2021 17:37

Does anyone else think that Liz Truss may have spent a bit of time on the FWR board? Smile

ScreamingMeMe · 31/05/2021 17:51

Link to LOJ's tweet, if you want to see the replies.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1399317574488313859?s=20

RedDogsBeg · 31/05/2021 18:08

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

Does anyone else think that Liz Truss may have spent a bit of time on the FWR board? Smile
I definitely think someone either from her office or connected in some way has been stalking this Board, a number of the things that have been said on here have been voiced.

Liz Truss telling Government Departments to leave Stonewall indicates to me that there is either an enquiry coming or they've had a whiff of a story breaking and they want to distance themselves.
Questions from the public as to why their taxes are funding a political lobby group that destroys the impartiality of Government Departments will be very hard to answer and it will be equally hard to justify continuing to do so.

The recent court cases have no doubt focused minds, the one against the MoJ particularly as you will never convince the man on the Clapham Omnibus that the MoJ being a Stonewall Champion had no influence or bearing on the MoJ's decision to place males into the female prison estate on the basis of the males gender identity.

The damning criticism of Stonewall's antics that were covered in the Essex University report, the intervention of the EHRC in the Maya Forstater case, and the Census debacle will certainly have given many politicians a wake up call.

It is notable that in the Census case how Stonewall had private off the record access to the ONS, things like that never go down well in the wider arena, add to that all the other ways in which Stonewall have infiltrated Government Departments and influenced them and it starts to look very questionable indeed. The voters did not vote for Stonewall to run the country, the did not vote for Stonewall to make and shape Government Policy, they did not vote for Stonewall to make or shape the Law and they most definitely did not vote for Stonewall to confidently and falsely represent what the actual Law is.

LizzieSiddal · 31/05/2021 18:09

And thank you to Justine for being brave enough to allow these discussions to take place here. I'm sure it didn't come without personal cost.

Yes a huge thank you to Justine and MNHQ for allowing us to debate this issue here.

Defaultname · 31/05/2021 18:38

[quote ScreamingMeMe]Link to LOJ's tweet, if you want to see the replies.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1399317574488313859?s=20[/quote]
One reply reads:
will always support Stonewall because they have done great work but as a lesbian I haven't enjoyed being ignored for about 3 years by them.

Eh?

Owen Jones speaks of the 'hysteria' of people who disagree with him.
"It's a word with a very female-baiting history, coming from the Latin hystericus ("of the womb"). This was a condition thought to be exclusive to women – sending them uncontrollably and neurotically insane owing to a dysfunction of the uterus (the removal of which is still called a hysterectomy)." www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2012/mar/08/mind-your-language-feminisation-madness

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2021 18:40

So, he knows exactly what he's saying when he uses the word, then.

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2021 18:44

Oh, that article is by Gary Nunn.

I was a bit surprised to hear of Owen mentioning something, anything, about women and/or feminism. That would have been a first.

Igmum · 31/05/2021 18:44

Very good news indeed. Here's to a balance of rights as the legislation requires. And yes, thank you Justine. We've still got a long way to go, but this is a great step forward

Defaultname · 31/05/2021 18:51

@ArabellaScott

Oh, that article is by Gary Nunn.

I was a bit surprised to hear of Owen mentioning something, anything, about women and/or feminism. That would have been a first.

Yeah, I should have put a gap between his name and the other Guardian article explaining the etymology of 'hysteria'.

At least Jones doesn't say "Is it that time of the month, girls?".

Leafstamp · 31/05/2021 18:53

Sorry if already posted, but could be worth tuning into a special of The Mess We’re In. Starting in 7 mins:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/its-here-the-peakening

PronounssheRa · 31/05/2021 18:57

[quote ScreamingMeMe]Link to LOJ's tweet, if you want to see the replies.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1399317574488313859?s=20[/quote]
LOJs twitter is interesting. Despite having a blocklist which must run into thousands, of those that are left, many do not agree with him re stonewall and are providing clear reasons why.

If LOJ had not created such an echo chamber around himself he might understand the issues better

OhHolyJesus · 31/05/2021 18:59

@SpindleWhorl

Ruth Hunt is in the House of Lords isn't she?
She is, and I await her thoughtful and measured response to this advice from Liz Truss.

Thanks Pronouns, I saw she had written a book or an intro to a book recently. Will see what she's been up to.

Would be good to hear her speak up in the HoL though as it wasn't that long ago it was she who was steering this ship into the icebergs...

rogdmum · 31/05/2021 19:03

Mermaids have responded - this will be the line they all take, I imagine (has visions of all the main groups spending today madly strategising). Still in bunker mode. Doesn’t occur to them to backtrack a bit and try to speak to people about their concerns.

“ The Government is systematically undermining the rights of all LGBTQ+ people by trying to dismantle @stonewalluk's work to protect and empower minority lives. THIS is why ALL LGBTQ+ people need to stand together against rampant transphobia in the press and politics. We are ONE.”

twitter.com/mermaids_gender/status/1399412794987106307?s=21

OhHolyJesus · 31/05/2021 19:15

@EmbarrassingAdmissions

Just this week my friend lost her job of 10 years because she has been talking about surgeons operating on children and she was doxxed

Sorry to read this - is she in any position to contact Sex Matters for advice or take it to an ET?

Sadly not, it's a global company and she wants to go quietly.

I'm not even sure they would be under a U.K. remit but it did make me think of the other women who have gone quietly and haven't been able to fight it in court because 'SW law' is so embedded and people go along with it.

Leafstamp · 31/05/2021 19:24

Not sure if it’s been mentioned earlier on the thread but the Stonewall Scotland Director criticised For Women Scot for their 1am tweet supporting Liz Truss commenting that most people are in bed at that hour Hmm

It’s really backfired on him and people have been posting some very amusing retorts /memes etc, if you want a chuckle, see here:

mobile.twitter.com/ForwomenScot/with_replies

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 31/05/2021 19:31

This is better news than I dared hope. Good for Liz Truss, Liam Fox and all those fighting back.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 31/05/2021 19:31

I did wonder if Owen Jones use of the word 'hysteria' was deliberate or not.....

RedDogsBeg · 31/05/2021 19:54

There are some very robust comments on that Mermaids thread, not quite going the way they hoped.

Leafstamp · 31/05/2021 20:15

There are indeed Reds.

I thought this one was interesting:

A symptom of a psychological disorder is the perception that everyone is out to get them. They perceive all events as hostile actions deliberately aimed against them no matter how reasonable those events are. The disorder itself, makes them unable to relate to this delusion.

Applies to so many TRAs who fail to appreciate that standing up for women’s rights and child safeguarding is not in itself anti-trans. When will they realise this?!