Young, Male and Anti-Feminist – The Gen Z Boys Who Hate Women

[MondayYogurt]

Sorry it's Vice, but possibly worth discussing: www.vice.com/en/article/dyv7by/anti-feminist-gen-z-boys-who-hate-women

Half of young men in the UK now believe that feminism has “gone too far and makes it harder for men to succeed”. These are the results of a significant study published in July 2020 by anti-extremism charity HOPE not Hate. The study, Young People in the Time of COVID-19, surveyed 2,076 16- to 24-year-olds on their ideological beliefs.

Group identity politics ( as in the intersectionalist hierarchy of oppression) tends to make those who occupy the other end of the spectrum the enemy; and then one ends up talking about 'men', 'white people' as if they are all one big amorphous blob, in very negative and generalised ways. Nobody likes to be referred to in such ways. It negates individual agency and responsibility...and flattens out the nuance and diversity of human experience and society , in very one dimensional ways.

I agree with the points you've raised Justhadathought.
I don't agree with female only shortlists or shortlists for ethnic minorities etc. Yet any man who publicly questions them, however mildly, is instantly painted as an irredeemable misogynist so I can understand how resentment can build up over time as there are a number of issues around women's rights and representation that aren't allowed to be questioned or debated and that doesn't help in the long-term.

@WeeBisom

I spoke to some young guys who were anti-feminist a couple of years ago, and what struck me was they despised even the most milquetoast, men pleasing feminism. Their ire was very strongly directed at modern liberal feminism, and they hated Emma Watson. And this surprised me. I said: "but liberal feminists are very pro porn and pro prostitution, they say that patriarchy hurts men, that feminism is for men to...I don't really see how this is opposed to your interests." And then I told them about second wave feminism and how that would have really pissed them off, and one of them replied that second wave feminism seemed "threatening." I just don't get why young men are so upset by feminism when it has bent over backwards to accommodate and please them.

Because they don't want it to exist at all, in any way, shape or form.

Read the book that’s referenced in the article and then come back to me, TriteMale.

Some people have done the work in researching this problem, and I’ll take their evidence over your thoughts until you can back up your thoughts with some facts.

Some people just do not want to accept how powerful the internet can be. It is a weapon of war and is used as such by lots of people - nation states, political agitators, groomers etc.

It’s a problem in many fields, especially politics. Yes it’s scary, but that doesn’t mean anyone facing up to what’s happening is wearing a tinfoil hat.

Specifically, we are witnessing the results of social media indoctrination.

It's designed to be addictive. It's designed to steer people to extremes of emotion (love, hate, anger). www.amazon.co.uk/Arguments-Deleting-Social-Media-Accounts/dp/1847925391

'That males/whites/Jews are the oppressors - just by being a male/white/Jewish'

Jewish?!?

Women around the world have been shouting about the violence and sexual violence inflicted on us by men forever.

It's not a recent idpol thing.

And we've forever been told to STFU quite frankly.

When women in India march against rape or women in Mexico march against femicide and they say stop raping us stop looking us. Everyone knows who that is aimed at.

I suppose signs saying rapists should stop raping and murderers should stop murdering would stop making men in general feel bad.

Murdering not looking.

Although of course Street harassment is also a massive problem.

'People just don't like being berated for things they're not personally responsible for, and told that because they're men they're responsible for what other men do.'

I find it strange that anyone would get upset about oppressed groups using class analysis to identify the group/s causing the issues.

But hey that's what happens so let's stop class analysis. Say some people do bad things to some people. (Not all women are rape victims for example so the stop raping us sign is bad).

And then everyone can go along happily saying what can we do about these random things happening to random people and there's no pattern. Well nothing. Can be done. Because no one knows what it's all about.

Hopeless.

If it's unfair to talk as a class then there's no reason to have sex segregation.

Those things are offensive to the large numbers who haven't done anything wrong and aren't creeps.

And the stuff men say about women day in day out?

Presumably means that any attempt to collect stats about female on male dv- an issue I know is close to your heart.

For the same reasons as vice versa.

Incidentally the idea earlier that the high rate of male suicide could well be the result of them being domestically abused by women is interesting.

'Or rather than berating innocent men we could try and reform the justice system so that rapists get sentences that are true deterrents, and stop the process of questioning that attempts to victim blame women for what they wear, etc'

Who is we?

And you know women have been trying to do this all over the world for ages, right!

You're aware I'm sure that only 1.5% of reported rapes even resulted in a charge last year? Been all over the news.

'we' aren't getting anywhere.

Still never mind eh as long as non rapey men don't have to hear that it's men who are overwhelmingly responsible for sexual violence. Because we don't want them to feel bad.

In the end all the 'arguments' being made here are old and feminists have heard them over and over again.

Any man who hears about women being sexually harmed in massive numbers and thinks. Well that is bad but tbh I'm not interested because some feminists said things I don't like over the last few decades... Is not a man who cares anyway but one who is looking for an excuse not to.

Trite as I've pointed out loads of times, that does not surprise me and is nothing new. Is been that way for as long as I can remember (decades).

Why when you read something like the vast majority of sexual violence is committed by men, do you see it as a personal affront.

It's really a very strange reaction.

As such, I don't think I'll heed your warning to stop pointing out that globally male sexual violence is a massive and devastatingly damaging issue.

What a patronising and silly example.

If that's how you feel when you read rape stats then your thought processes are wonky.

@NoIdontwanttoseeyourknob

What joy to have a man explaining his views at length to us on a discussion forum for women.

Actually,since the original post is literally about mens views of feminism, I think this is an unreasonable complaint ( in this specific context anyway) Otherwise the discussion really is an echo chamber .