Young, Male and Anti-Feminist – The Gen Z Boys Who Hate Women

[MondayYogurt]

Sorry it's Vice, but possibly worth discussing: www.vice.com/en/article/dyv7by/anti-feminist-gen-z-boys-who-hate-women

Half of young men in the UK now believe that feminism has “gone too far and makes it harder for men to succeed”. These are the results of a significant study published in July 2020 by anti-extremism charity HOPE not Hate. The study, Young People in the Time of COVID-19, surveyed 2,076 16- to 24-year-olds on their ideological beliefs.

As for the anti feminist blokes etc. It's not anti feminist.

It's anti women. Anti girls.

Men and boys disliking feminist/ feminism? Nothing new. Has always been this way.

Saying feminism has gone too far etc.

Nothing new.

Someone earlier said why aren't the libfems popular.

Bottom line is women standing up and talking, being confident, and disagreeing with/ challenging men is never popular.

And we're continually told we must do things differently. What about this and that and the other. Don't you care? Problem is that if women don't push we don't get anything.

The fact that feminists- ie women pushing for a better situation for women and girls- are never welcome. Look around the world/ look to the past. We have had to fight for everything we have. And what we gain is constantly under attack as well.

First, just because someone took a survey doesn't mean their results are accurate.

Second, there have always been bottom feeders out there.

I wouldn't dwell on them. Ick.

'Because it is a competition, one for resources.'

In what way is trying to think of ways to stop men and boys assaulting women and girls to do with resources.

I get that the police want to spend their resources elsewhere.

But how is trying to address the reality of a too large minority of men being creepy bastards day in day out a resource issue?

'Would you say the same applies to the seeming majority of young women that reject feminism?'

Yes. Again, this is nothing new.

If you're heterosexual and you want to go out with blokes then saying you're s feminist is not going to make you popular. Nor is expressing feminist views. Or tbh even thinking them too much- because if you did then you'd have to rule out stacks of blokes.

So no. Nothing new.

@TriteMale

Because it is a competition, one for resources. Any claim of disadvantage by one group is an implicit demand for resources for the disadvantaged group. This then becomes problematic because the reality of most groups is that they are composites, with the trait used to identify a group having a very limited relationship to that group’s supposed advantage or disadvantage. But I’m always kind of amazed how people don’t realise why identity politics are so contentious...

I think this is an interesting point. A good example could be the battle going on around services for female victims of DV. In some cases women's shelters have been shut specifically for not catering for trans individuals if I remember rightly (well, transwomen [men] to be precise).

Incorrect. They have lost funding for not catering to men. The contracts have been given to large companies with little or no experience in that area, who are cheap.

The other point is.

Women set up the refuges etc. Raised money. Raised awareness. Lobbied etc etc.

Different groups have different needs, different risks, different support needed.

Why this constant sour grapes over women having stuff that we've worked to get?

Eg the 1 hour a week women's swim session somewhere. Bloke complained. It was cancelled. 1 fucking hour a week. Did he want a men only hour? No of course he didn't. He just didn't want women to have one.

This sort of dynamic goes on all the time. Always has. Going back. Shit discos. Women free. Men pay. That got up a lot of noses. Unfair!

But the women never asked for it. And the fact was they were there to get the men in. Being used as a lure, an attraction. A benefit of going there. What does that tell the men? Nothing good.

But still. Very complained about.

I read “Men Who Hate Women” recently. What’s being described in that Vice article isn’t some accidental trend. Young men and boys are being specifically and deliberately targeted online and radicalised. It’s insidious and absolutely everywhere - gaming, social media, YouTube.

It’s not a coincidence that boys are coming out with all the same ideas and phrases about women and feminism. It’s part of the strategy.

The feminist movement is losing the online war in a big way, and there could be dramatic negative effects as that generation of males comes of age.

I kind of agree and disagree!

Yes the internet is brilliant but also awful.

The accessibility of material that would have been 'hardcore' back in the day, and to all ages is a disaster. The general societal acceptance that that's just how it is and what can you do is... Odd, tbh.

The ability of dodgy types to connect and egg each other on. Not good.

OTOH. This is driven by interest. If men weren't interested in seeing women get all the shit done to them then it wouldn't be there. The desire to see women put in their place- through sexual dominance or otherwise. Is not new.

Similarly with the incel stuff. If young men were wtf are you mad women are great. Then it wouldn't work.

Look around the world at how women are treated in loads of other countries. It's not a good picture.

The desire to control women and girls, to keep them in their place is not new.

The propensity to hurt them with sex. Is not new. Look what happens, and has always happened in war. And in other situations where men can do pretty much as they please.

I didn't know there was an online war.

I don't think women ever stood a chance. There was no battle. It's been a male domain since it started.

It’s the method that is new, not the misogyny. The fact that it is globally-coordinated radicalisation. It makes it so much harder to deal with. They are at least one step ahead.

@QuentinBunbury

Such a shame this thread has got derailed into whether feminists care about male suicide.

I have a 17 y o son who behaves in a lot of the ways described in the article and it disturbs me a lot. For example last week he told me feminists were dangerous to women because they are doing #killallmen and if they are going to start threatening men with violence, men have to protect themselves.
Followed with a load of inaccurate and misleading "news" he showed me on tiktok.

It's scary that it's so hard to filter out credible info from bullshit and its really entrenching some unpleasant beliefs in our boys.

this is so scary. what on earth can be done about it? it hurts everyone.

Such a shame this thread has got derailed into whether feminists care about male suicide.

Just going to repost this from the start...

John, 21, was radicalised by the far right when he was in his late teens. He spent two long years in his bedroom in the north of England learning about far-right ideology online and trolling feminists. Mostly he would infiltrate feminist groups or use multiple anonymous Twitter accounts to verbally abuse or harass women any time anything to do with women or feminists were trending or performing well on the platform.

He spent two long years in his bedroom in the north of England learning about far-right ideology online and trolling feminists.

If he'd had an education that taught critical thinking, debate, seeing different sides, then maybe he'd have had the ability to critically assess far-right ideology online and leave it alone

The worst parts of feminism? I see you.

Male violence against women is caused by men. So this whole 'well women don't care about male suicide' is a massive non sequitur. Men killing themselves is not due to systematic oppression by women, and I doubt very much that women can do much to prevent men from doing it. Men raping and killing women is something that men as a class perpetuate on women, and women are entitled to be angry about it and demand that men stop it.
So good I thought the men posting here could do with reading it again

Monday Yep the bat signal is well and truly up.
It's fine when feminists are discussing trabs issues, we can be ignored as it's identity politics infighting and doesn't affect mens rights.

But as soon as we discuss anything about bad behaviour by men, up goes the call.

@QuentinBunbury

Monday Yep the bat signal is well and truly up. It's fine when feminists are discussing trabs issues, we can be ignored as it's identity politics infighting and doesn't affect mens rights.

But as soon as we discuss anything about bad behaviour by men, up goes the call.

It's a bit obvious isn't it?

Some user names are so apt.

What I would like to know is which bits of feminism have gone too far
Is it the vote
Is it being able to have a job and get paid for it
Is it expecting men to do their fair share
Is it being able to have an abortion

I think what gets people's backs up is when any form of group identity politics becomes a relentless trawl through the remains; and the continual preachiness ( " Teach your sons to respect women" - after the murder of Sarah Everard) etc etc; the implications that by simply being female you are necessarily oppressed, and that by being male, you are part of the problem, and so on.....

It is the same with the relentless demands to "de-colonise the curriculum" and the preaching of 'white privilege' of BLM.....

Group identity politics tends to be separative by nature, and tends to focuses on how being a member of particular social grouping makes you a structural victim of some sort. That males/whites/Jews are the oppressors - just by being a male/white/Jewish

@ArthurApples

The worst parts of feminism? I see you.

👏👏 👏

During the recent elections, an all female short- list for role of city mayor was imposed by the Labour party. None of the candidates were that good, and all had been implicated, by association, with a corrupt previous regime.

When a young gay man questioned the validity of female only short-lists he was told he was a misogynist. This really got his back up...and I can understand why.

Anyone who even questions any measures taken to supposedly combat prejudice against women/black people is accused of misogyny or racism.