What Would You Do If Your Child/Grand-Child/Beloved Nephew or Niece Told You They Were Sure They Were Trans?

[BilindaB]

They want to see a doctor and explore their options. How would you react? Let's say they are a teenager, but if you have personal experience of a child of any age telling you this, please share.

I was born as what they termed in the olden days as “ intersex”
It was left in the hands of my parents to decide how they would like to bring me up.
I question how both of them made their decision, but accept now that I live my life independently of how either of them may feel.

Why not have a wide ranging discussion?

Anyway.

DD1 used to wear only boys clothes which of course I was fine with. She rocked a suit at a wedding when she was 9.

Now at secondary she's in a group where they are all trans identified. A couple have changed their names.

No probs.

DD is no longer rejecting of being female- she started puberty young and it seemed to coincide with that which is understandable. Periods and boobs when you're not even in the last year of primary school is tough.

She also started wearing 2 bras, I suppose to try to bind. I said I'd be happy to get her some sports bras or similar to squish them but binding itself was not good due to restricting breathing etc.

Anyway she's grown out of it now essentially.

I imagine she still is non binary or something in her group.

For me name changes clothes hair so what it's fine.

When it gets to medical intervention etc it's a different story.

I was a child who saw the doc a lot. As someone who was not usual, it made me feel special. All the surgical pain was awful but the attention from the docs, nurses. Being in hosp. I liked it. It was long enough ago that I can say that.

In the end not my child not my business. Going to the doc I would only do if there was what I thought a history, a good reason, and other issues had been explored. Because blockers, double mastectomy, testosterone. Are a massive massive deal.

@BilindaB

But what would you do or say? I'd rather not have a wide-ranging discussion , just presenting a situation that anyone could find themselves in, and how they would handle it. Thanks.

Why not have a wide-ranging discussion? Are you looking for sound bytes? What is the purpose of your thread? Just asking.

If you have any doubts Zeev, do ask MNHQ to check it out using the report button. You won’t be the only person.

I'm not really sure of your angle to be honest, are you a parent of a trans child, are you the trans child or is there a different motive behind this?

When I posted in defence of tans folk the other day, there were a lot of people debating an 'ant trans' position, and I wondered how they'd answer this question. The most hardline of them haven't answered, but I'm pleased to see most responses are what I would hope for. That's all.

Ah, I've just realised that you're the 'Welcome to the future. Things have changed' poster. Here for screenshots?

?

Tbh as there are 5 girls in my ds's class who change their name regularly I wouldn't give it much attention at all. I would simply say it doesn't need a label.

Like @NiceGerbil dd 14 (ASD) who had never shown any interest in wearing clothes designed for boys (in fact went to a school residential with dresses as she was so opposed to wearing scruffs and needed to put on a dress after the activities) declared herself trans and lopped off her long hair and adopted the male diminutive of her name. Stopped wearing dresses and declared herself trans.
I bought her the clothes she wanted, called her the name she wanted and decided to play the long game. I challenged her gently, gave her my thoughts and waited.
Lockdown happened, she changed school to an autism specialist school became happy, started wearing more feminine clothes and apologised that she had been an arse at times over the past four years.
She is who she is, geeky and autistic (she describes herself) but definitely not trans.

@Waitwhat23

Ah, I've just realised that you're the 'Welcome to the future. Things have changed' poster. Here for screenshots?

Exactly. Yet this poster wonders why no one is answering their thread.

And yet, if they read many other threads they would see just how many regular posters have trans people in their lives.

And for what it is worth OP. The ‘regular’ posters on FWR are not ‘anti trans’ they are pro women. I am sure it has been explained to you.

Many of us fight for the rights of all female’s to be strengthened where needed when they come into contact with conflicts with the rights of any other group.

It is also getting quite hard to find a parent of a female teen that is NOT dealing with the effects, either directly or indirectly, of this movement. Some on a daily basis. Being told ‘welcome to the future!’ Is just offensive really in those cases.

Try to explore what they mean by 'trans', what they think 'men' and 'women' are.
Avoid the NHS, seek out a therapist who will explore, not affirm.
Make sure they understand that sex change is not possible, that hormones and surgery are just cosmetic.

@BilindaB

When I posted in defence of tans folk the other day, there were a lot of people debating an 'ant trans' position, and I wondered how they'd answer this question. The most hardline of them haven't answered, but I'm pleased to see most responses are what I would hope for. That's all.

Are you just looking for an argument then ?

You are right there are some regular posters who are very anti trans, some even gang up to to stiffle a discussion.

But be careful not to confuse the transphobes with the regular women who are just trying to protect their spaces, their rights etc for themselves and their daughters.
There is a huge difference between the two.

I'm far from being a parent at this moment, but I would sit her down and have a discussion with her. If she were uncomfortable with gender roles I would allow her to dress and act how she wanted assuming she's being reasonable and not offensive. If I thought she were being exposed to trans ideology online or through her friends, I would limit her usage and examine if her friendships are the right ones for her. If I found that she had dysphoria, which is very rare, I would get her professional help, but under no circumstances would I let her transition because I don't think surgery is the right "treatment" for a mental health issue.

But ideally I would raise a child who would be immune to all this.
I didn't have the best childhood by far, but I grew up being able to engage in traditionally feminine hobbies as well as traditionally masculine ones, and being a girl didn't really mean much to my identity. I just knew I was a female human being.

'Being told ‘welcome to the future!’ Is just offensive really in those cases.'

I'm sorry if that caused any offence, I'm not trying to offend anyone, nor am I 'just looking for an argument.' It seemed a mild way of saying 'this is how things are now, and I believe will be going forward, it can't just be wished away.'

I am very interested in trans issues, I'm very supportive of trans people, and started posting in a couple of threads here when people were saying things that were offensive to me. So we can all be offended.

I don't go on Twitter, and I would not try to discuss anything there as it becomes toxic very quickly. I understand that trans issues have made some people very hostile to those with opposing views, but I think it's good to discuss things with as much mutual respect and patience and empathy as possible. If I ever fall short of the mark myself, that isn't me at my best.

I have no more ulterior motive than what I expressed - for anyone who wants to answer to say what they would do in that given situation. You won't see me jumping on anyone's answer to start a slanging match, and I don't think anyone else has done that either, as it's a personal thing how you would react.

''But be careful not to confuse the transphobes with the regular women who are just trying to protect their spaces, their rights etc for themselves and their daughters.''

I understand that, from personal experience.

On another thread, on being given a long list of people, in particular transwomen, who literally believe that they have changed sex and/or were female from birth, you wrote this -

You are either mistaken or lying, I wonder which. Which makes me doubt some of the other names you list.

Accusing the posters on here of lying isn't polite debate. Out of interest, did you check out the rest of the names on the list to see whether we were 'mistaken or lying'?

I'm happy to debate with good faith posters. Not so much with bad faith posters with an agenda.

What @LunaRabbit said. Plus ask her what thoughts and feelings had she had that she believed a girl couldn't have? I'd make sure she was exposed to plenty of diverse female role models. I'd make sure she knew that whatever surgery or hormones people had or took it didn't actually make them the opposite sex in the same way that hormones and surgery can't make a 50 year old 25.

@BilindaB

But what would you do or say? I'd rather not have a wide-ranging discussion , just presenting a situation that anyone could find themselves in, and how they would handle it. Thanks.

I have had experience of teens (16-17) saying this to me. Just someone I met a couple of times at work. I suggested that had they thought they might be a lesbian rather than trans. She said her dad would rather she was a boy than a lesbian(!) I asked her if she knew about the physical harm that transitioning, starting with breast-binders (she mentioned them), would cause. She didn't know. I asked her to do more research and consider that she may be lesbian and not trans, or just not like her body much at that moment in time, but that was a temporary feeling. I didn't get to talk to her much after that, but I hope it made her stop and think.

I have this experience, yes, and I feel extremely saddened by it.

I doubt that my young relative would have been in the old, rare cohort who ‘needed’ to transition. It seems to me to have been a combination of reaction to a difficult family situation, the near-fatal illness of a parent, and one of those bloody Stonewall Champion schools in which half of year 9 all come out as trans together.

I’ll use the new name but avoid much discussion. I sit on my thoughts about it to avoid hurting her feelings.

The grandparents were at first bemused and then utterly shocked, having vaguely thought ‘transman’ was a new word for lesbian, and not realised it meant breast removal, a broken voice and a beard.

I love the kid and hate the situation. How on earth anyone can think that this is a good thing to do to a very young, hurt, vulnerable woman beats me.

I'd explain humans can't change sex.

I'd explain all the horrendous side effects from taking cross-sex hormones (which are usually used in breast cancer treatment and male chemical castration) from infertility to osteoporosis.

I'd explain that creating a "neo vagina" involves turning your penis inside out and taking bits of your colon or stomach lining and attaching it, that even Jazz Jennings - who supposedly had the world's best surgeons - has had four operations to try and fix the damage that has been done to him, that the neo-vagina needs to be dilated every day for life to stop it healing up and that, despite all of that, it will never function like a real vagina. I'd explain that even if you manage to have a successful operation you may well still lose all ability to climax. (Imagine trying to make an accurate model vagina from Play Doh. Now imagine doing that with skin, while trying to navigate scar tissue and bacteria and thousands of nerve endings etc).

I'd explain that creating a "neo phallus" requires multiple skin grafts from the arm or other part of the body. I would show them pictures of the scarring. I would explain that even after numerous operations a neo-phallus doesn't work like a real phallus and the best you can hope for is inserting a pump into some neo-testicles and pumping them during intercourse to make the neo-phallus erect.

I'd explain that even after all those surgeries - each one involving general anaesthetic, which is in itself dangerous - and inviting a range of issues from infection to sepsis that can occur with any operation - you still haven't changed sex. You have modified your body. And you may still not feel happy in it. You may even feel worse.

I'd explain that there is no one universal feeling of "male" or "female" - that we each are stuck with and in our own bodies and that whatever we sew on or chop off doesn't really change that.

And then I would sit down with them and try and identify what was causing them to feel so uncomfortable in their own body and how we could think about making them feel better without surgery or chemicals.

Here's my question for you OP.

Let's say your super skinny teenager came to you one day and said they feel fat. That every time they look in the mirror they hate how their thighs bulge and their stomach overhangs their jeans. You can see that the teenager is tiny - bones protruding, not an ounce of fat - but they tell you they need to slim down further.

How would you react? Would you "affirm" them by giving them a set of scales and a diet book? Maybe some laxatives?

I have an autistic daughter aged 11. Into anime and already talking about being bisexual (she didn’t know what sex was initially so I’m not sure she’s certain yet). A year or two ago she talked about being a boy but it was a friend encouraging this and it stopped when she drifted from the friend. I have a bet with myself/DH that she will at least talk about being non binary. I’m combating the female stereotypes and idea of gender by telling her there’s no boys clothes or girls toys etc. A girl can wear/play/work/enjoy whatever and they are still a girl. The only difference is genitals until puberty. Brains aren’t gendered aside from the affect of hormones. But it’s important to know men are much stronger and usually bigger.

If it’s non binary and she’s not really transitioning I’ll let her know it doesn’t change reality. I won’t use silly pronouns (she wouldn’t know anyway), I won’t panic and will chat about the subject generally to explain and encourage her to see women as varied and that having masculine qualities is normal. If it goes further I’ll ban the internet and find a decent therapist. If it’s school friends pushing it and it’s getting worse I’ll homeschool her, potentially from a cottage in snowdonia and volunteer on a farm/wildlife centre. Get back to nature and reconnect with her physical reality.

She can retake GCSEs later in life but she can’t reverse a mastectomy, restore a female voice or easily remove a beard or receding hairline. I’ll fight for her but pray it won’t happen.

A teen I knew transitioned, female to male, also ASD. It happened after meeting a trans boy. I was supportive but didn’t see them as male at all, just not a particularly feminine girl. I said this to another adult but not to the child. It was such a shame but it was none of my business. At the time I was very supportive of trans people, I just didn’t see her as a boy, she was a fab girl - insightful, empathetic and sensitive, nothing overtly masculine, and I’d love my DD to be as mature and helpful in a few years. I would have loved to have told her that. “What a woman is” was too narrow for her to fit comfortably. I really hope she desisted.

I mean in the end OP this is a chat board frequented generally by UK women, many of whom have children.

The FWR board used to generally attract left leaning posters / more definite left/ feminist activists / women who had been active in LGB rights things back in the day etc.

The board has got s wider group posting now but overall the flavour hasn't changed much.

The question is what would you do if your child said they were trans etc.

What were you expecting?

Something other than. Do our best, worry, find out what's been going on, etc etc?

What did you think people would say, out of interest?

@BilindaB

When I posted in defence of tans folk the other day, there were a lot of people debating an 'ant trans' position, and I wondered how they'd answer this question. The most hardline of them haven't answered, but I'm pleased to see most responses are what I would hope for. That's all.

Are you saying that this isn't a real dilemma but you just wanted to see what people responded? So you took up my time and energy and thought for your own idle pleasure?

My niece came out as trans three years ago when she was 11 - like previous posters she gave herself a boy’s name and chopped off all her hair. She was an early developer with breasts and periods when she was ten and a half. We all called her by her new name and didn’t make a big deal about it. She transitioned back a month ago after a family bereavement. Again, we’ve not made a fuss, just switched back to calling her by her birth name.