Posie putting her money where her mouth is. Lets do this.

[Fallingirl]

Posie is planning to re-build the women’s sector, starting with crowd funding for a women-only refuge.

By the same token, I'm really disappointed to see Jeanhatchet actively trying to undermine the work of another fundraiser, but that wouldn't stop me donating towards Jean's next project if I believed in it

Yes. I agree.

Vivienne Hayes

Nicola Benge

Both doing brilliant work in the sector.

(That was in response to Theeyeballsinthesky )

Thank you for those names Sapphos - may I suggest that this is a much more productive approach.

I have looked at them both and while they appear to be doing some great stuff I can't see any reference to anything specifically to do with VAWG, which is what this thread is about.

They both spoke at a recent WPUK event, alongside Shonnagh Dillon, Catia Freitas and Karen Ingala Smith.

All very much worth listening to on this topic.

Vivienne Hayes -

Nicola Benge -

Cátia Freitas -

Shonagh Dillon -

Karen Ingala Smith:

And the links given in the talks are here: womansplaceuk.org/a-womans-place-is-fighting-for-womens-services-chat-links/

Thank you and I am sure they are, but can you clarify whether they are currently raising money to fund a women only refuge (not a specialist service like nia but a refuge for women and girls?) That's what this thread is about.

I have looked at them both and while they appear to be doing some great stuff I can't see any reference to anything specifically to do with VAWG, which is what this thread is about.

Are you being serious??? That is literally what they do all day every day.

Can you point out where because I have looked up both names and while I can see that they run / support a range of excellent projects, I can't see anything about raising money to fund a refuge that is publicly and unambiguously for women and girls.

I have also read CharlieParley's posts who is a better feminist than
I am, and who has done considerably more research than I have, and who also apparently found nothing.

If you don't have time then that is fine but I'm asking because you seem very keen to point us in the direction of superiors alternatives. Thank you for your trouble.

Floise I don't really have time because it's half term, but a five second Google found this interview with Vivienne Hayes raising the issues back in 2008:

www.thirdsector.co.uk/interview-womens-work/infrastructure/article/776829

We should work with the women currently in the sector who have actually welcomed men in. Oh

This is exactly why what Posie's doing is toxic. She has started this whole thing, by slandering the entire women's sector (minus KIS) as the enemy, instead of building bridges, and people are going along with it.

Yes, it will throw light on the sector but if Posie's spreading false rumours on what's actually happening for publicity, that could be counterproductive. It also shits all over the women who are doing work in the sector already, publicly and behind the scenes.

Yes, there's a massive problem here. But surely people can see that making the entire sector out to be the enemy has the potential to cause damage?

Ok thanks, but it appears from a quick scan of that article that Vivienne Haye's organisation works in partnership with Consortium LGBT, so I imagine it's highly unlikely that she's able to fundraise for a refuge that's specifically for women and girls. Which is precisely the problem. But I'll keep looking.

The thing that annoyed me about Posie's video that I don't think has been discussed yet (unless I missed it?) is all the talk of "bending the knee" etc to get money from councils.

Damn right we should have council and government money for refuges. Women deserve to have taxes spent on this. I'm not sure how I would have felt, if I was busy lobbying on behalf of women's groups to get more money for shelters, if I heard Posie talking about me as "bending the knee".

Why not a campaign to get the sector properly funded? And to get a commitment from government for single sex spaces. If we could get that, it'd be more powerful than one new refuge, surely?

@Floisme

Ok thanks, but it appears from a quick scan of that article that Vivienne Haye's organisation works in partnership with Consortium LGBT, so I imagine it's highly unlikely that she's able to fundraise for a refuge that's specifically for women and girls. Which is precisely the problem. But I'll keep looking.

Are you ignoring all the women from the sector who are saying that lots of services by women for women do still exist?

Shonagh Dillon has been researching exactly this by the way, so when she publishes her research we should have a much better picture of what's going on.

No I hope I'm not ignoring them although I don't pretend to have expert knowledge. However my understanding from this thread is that these services are unable to say in public and in straightforward language that this is what they do.

@shesellsseacats Yes I did notice that. Derogatory and also a side swipe at BLM.

Incidentally some of this current discussion is replicating what was said at the beginning of the thread. For example, Shonagh Dillon is quoted pages back saying that refuges that retain single sex spaces might not be ready to join the public fight.

That's the issue for me: the secrecy. I can understand how workers inside the sector might feel annoyed and threatened but, if this campaign brings this issue out into the open then, as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing.

Shesellsseacats Yes, it will throw light on the sector but if Posie's spreading false rumours on what's actually happening for publicity, that could be counterproductive. It also shits all over the women who are doing work in the sector already, publicly and behind the scenes

Posie isn't spreading rumours or lies. The fact that males are being allowed into what are supposed to be women only spaces isn't exactly news. This has been going on for years and everyone knows it. She hasn't just made it up!

She isn't shitting on the sector she's illuminating the fact that if services want govt funding they are forced to accept males because of the ridiculous ideology and wrong legal advice being forced on them by the likes of Stonewall, TELI etc.

[quote shakingstevensfan]@shesellsseacats Yes I did notice that. Derogatory and also a side swipe at BLM.[/quote]
Ive been trying not to post on this thread

But bending the knee is not the same as taking a knee...its not a side swipe at BLM

Thanks for that, I thought it was about BLM so happy to be corrected.

I think the point is exactly that women and girls should have public money spent on our safety and needs. Not having to be compromised by everyone pretending that a mixed sex provision is a single sex provision for women and girls.

Of course 'bending the knee' isn't the same as 'taking the knee'. Some of these insults are getting a bit daft now.

Bending the knee = expressing fealty, often compelled.

I don't point the finger at women who work in this area with that. It is the ones who allocate public funding who have created this situation. Organisations where lobby groups have it all their own way with only one side of the situation deemed important. And downgrading the specific needs of women and girls without a care.

@SpindleWhorl

Of course 'bending the knee' isn't the same as 'taking the knee'. Some of these insults are getting a bit daft now.

Bending the knee = expressing fealty, often compelled.

Appreciate the poster who made the comment has said they are happy to be corrected the interesting fact is that they leapt to that conclusion in the first place and were only too happy to use it to besmirch Posie. If there's a reach to be made when undermining what Posie is trying to do you can be sure it will be made.

@OhHolyJesus

I can't remember where this came from, I think it was from here some years ago, so I'm sorry that I can't clarify whether it was a refuge or a specialised service or if it was in England or Scotland.

This is handwritten advice for how to deal with complaints from a 'service user'.

If anyone recognised it please do help with the background. I knew at the time I should save it.

Found the thread! From May 2019

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3574351-Rape-crisis-centre-staff-trained-to-ask-the-cis-guest-to-leave

It's a fascinating read. Apart from mumsnetters' research, which was as ever, exemplary, I notice MNer after MNer saying that we needed someone to stand up and fundraise for women's refuge and rape crisis centres that would be independent of local council funding.

Well, in May 2021, someone finally did. We've been waiting a long time, and it looks like women don't want to cut off their noses to spite their face.

Posie is not going to be running it. She's already a campaigner for women and girls, which must be incredibly time-intensive, and has her own life beyond that. She's just using her platform that she has worked hard to build, to fundraise for it. Personal criticisms of Posie are irrelevant.

If she doesn't succeed, this money will go to an existing refuge. Probably one we don't currently know about, that is under the radar, and sorely in need of GC feminist money!

These are both aims I'm happy to see my money go to.

But if you think I shouldn't be, give me an alternative. And no, not an existing refuge. I am already donating to an entire host of women's charities, including the ones suggested on this thread. Which one of them is fundraising for an entirely new, additional male-free facility? Posie is the figurehead for that. Who else?