Posie putting her money where her mouth is. Lets do this.

[Fallingirl]

Posie is planning to re-build the women’s sector, starting with crowd funding for a women-only refuge.

@howtocomplain

do you honestly think 2 refuges in the whole of the uk is enough?

It's not just 2 refuges, that's nonsense.

It may be more than two, but there are clearly regions of the country where there isn't one.

There was a woman who posted in this forum not long ago who mentioned that she had chosen to return to her partner because she didn't feel safe in the refuge because it accepted transwomen. In the UK.

This is not an acceptable situation.

I agree that the women's sector is more than providing a roof- but it has to start there, and we have regions where no-one is providing that roof.

As previously said, I don't think Posie is imagining that she'll run anything all on her own, 24/7, so obviously she'll be collaborating with other women. She'll get women coming forward.

I have to say she is worth it by the raising of consciousness. From I. Willoughby to Dr Harrop, she went on and wasn't left footed by any 'I have to be inclusive of males in womanhood' stuff. The motivation and feeling that we (women, only of the sex) are not going to take this lying down.

Has she said that she wasn't going to bring expertise onboard?

Howtocomplain maybe you should contact Kellie-Jay to discuss this? She probably won't be able to reveal who she collaborates with for obvious reasons.

@AyeRobot

Huh? I don't get the naysayers - it was the bloody experts who let the men in! If they'd said "sorry, this is a service for women who have specific needs , but we'll share our knowledge of how to go setting up your own provision", then Posie wouldn't be doing this. In fact, I would suggest that if the providers of services for women had said no, then Posie probably wouldn't have done very much at all about any of this.

I suspect that this is classic Posie & her aim is to get the existing providers to step up to the damn plate. Good for her.

This is unfair to the women who have been fighting for single sex services. I know that NIA have lost funding for some of the refuges they used o run because they were single sex.

I fully support a new refuge it is much needed but we do need to find a way of supporting existing refuges which are at risk of losing funding. If there was a fund they could apply to that would really help them keep their independence.

NIA has two refuges which specialise in supporting women who might be excluded from other provinces. There is the refuges on the Isle of White and the one run by Shona Dhillon. I am sure there are more that are keeping a lower profile.

Then dont give your money? It's as simple as that.

I won't be, don't worry. But the title of the thread is very misleading. It isn't her money. It is everyone else's money. So those asking for better information before making an informed decision about where they put their are being entirely reasonable. This isn't about whether you agree with her or not, and it isn't about her. £150,000 - or even double that - is entirely unrealistic as an amount of money to set up and run a refuge. Where is the business plan and project outline? How will the money be managed and by whom? What happens to the money if they are (very likely) not able to spend it on the purpose for which it is given? There are many questions about all of this, and simply labelling a thing or a person as "great" doesn't answer any of them or protect people and their money. If anyone simply set up a crowdfunding page to set up what is, in effect, a charitable endeavour, wouldn't you ask questions about what they were going to do? And how the planned to do it? Don't you ever ask those questions of anything you fund? Because anyone who doesn't is simply proving that a fool and their money are easily parted.

No one can argue with her 2 refuges claim, though, as no one wants to bring attention to the refuges where women can have a space away from men.

Yes - but that is exactly why I will be donating to this project, despite my many reservations about it.

The remaining women-only shelters in this country are so terrified of losing funding, and of being hounded (as brilliantly laid out by Purgatory), that they cannot be honest about their policies. How is any vulnerable woman supposed to find a women-only shelter, or have any confidence that one even exists, if only a select few in the sector know about it? And how can anyone donate to such a shelter if its policies are not common knowledge?

By donating to PP's project I am trying to support the principle that women-only shelters should exist, and that women should be able to talk publicly about the need for them. If PP raises enough money to found a shelter, hopefully she will find someone who knows what they are doing to actually run the thing. But whether she does or not, this campaign could force this issue out into the open, while PP absorbs quite a bit of MRA fire herself.

If this project is able to make some noise, it could encourage existing shelters which are doing their best to stay women-only - as well as the experienced women's sector workers whose expertise I absolutely want to see embedded in every refuge - to be honest with funders and service users about their real views on women-only services, in the knowledge that many of us support their work and understand the necessity of this provision.

If I was managing a refuge or refuges that was/were using the exemption, I would be quietly reaching out to KJ and discussing options with her.

I would NOT be telling her off, I would be using this as an opportunity to build the number of places available and to also build support. I would be proactive instead of talking about how terrible she was at collaboration and her ego.

Of course, I would expect that KJ keep sensitive information to herself but be working to improve what is essentially needed. A platform for women to donate to strengthen what is available.

Why wouldn’t she then tweak the campaign to include grants to existing organisations? If it is pointed out to her that she is barking up the wrong tree, I am sure she will be more than happy to make changes. At the moment it seems to be in its infancy and flexible.

There is scope for this to be a very positive campaign and frankly, she is person to do this. And she fully acknowledged that £150k is the start. She fully knows it is going to take so much more. She states clearly that this is the start.

This is unfair to the women who have been fighting for single sex services. I know that NIA have lost funding for some of the refuges they used o run because they were single sex.

I fully support a new refuge it is much needed but we do need to find a way of supporting existing refuges which are at risk of losing funding. If there was a fund they could apply to that would really help them keep their independence.

NIA has two refuges which specialise in supporting women who might be excluded from other provinces. There is the refuges on the Isle of White and the one run by Shona Dhillon. I am sure there are more that are keeping a lower profile.

Exactly. . The idea that the whole of the women's sector are doing nothing about this and need Posie to shake them up is an insult IMO.

@Moondust001

Then dont give your money? It's as simple as that.

I won't be, don't worry. But the title of the thread is very misleading. It isn't her money. It is everyone else's money. So those asking for better information before making an informed decision about where they put their are being entirely reasonable. This isn't about whether you agree with her or not, and it isn't about her. £150,000 - or even double that - is entirely unrealistic as an amount of money to set up and run a refuge. Where is the business plan and project outline? How will the money be managed and by whom? What happens to the money if they are (very likely) not able to spend it on the purpose for which it is given? There are many questions about all of this, and simply labelling a thing or a person as "great" doesn't answer any of them or protect people and their money. If anyone simply set up a crowdfunding page to set up what is, in effect, a charitable endeavour, wouldn't you ask questions about what they were going to do? And how the planned to do it? Don't you ever ask those questions of anything you fund? Because anyone who doesn't is simply proving that a fool and their money are easily parted.

Yes, this.

Another one saying I don't know what makes you believe Posie wouldn't involve other women who have the specialist knowledge to make this work. She hasn't claimed to do it all on her own

As for her being unable to work well with other women and feminists, thats categorically not true.

Posie has been shafted multiple times by women who claimed to be working with her and towards the same goals and who then spoke badly about her often not giving her any opportunity to say her side. She doesn't care and she keeps going because she cares about this issue.

And yes this is from personal experience not from "an idea of her based on the media" or whatever you said. Posie and I disagree on many things, yet that has never stopped either of us from agreeing on this topic.

If I was managing a refuge or refuges that was/were using the exemption, I would be quietly reaching out to KJ and discussing options with her.

I would NOT be telling her off, I would be using this as an opportunity to build the number of places available and to also build support. I would be proactive instead of talking about how terrible she was at collaboration and her ego.

Of course, I would expect that KJ keep sensitive information to herself but be working to improve what is essentially needed. A platform for women to donate to strengthen what is available.

Why wouldn’t she then tweak the campaign to include grants to existing organisations? If it is pointed out to her that she is barking up the wrong tree, I am sure she will be more than happy to make changes. At the moment it seems to be in its infancy and flexible.

There is scope for this to be a very positive campaign and frankly, she is person to do this. And she fully acknowledged that £150k is the start. She fully knows it is going to take so much more. She states clearly that this is the start.

This. Why not raise any concerns with her directly.

Posie said weeks ago when she first mentioned this that she has a women helping her/with her who know what they're doing and have done similar before.

Well, I sincerely hope so.

Like I said, if what Posie is actually up to is supporting someone else with solid experience in the sector who knows what they're doing, then that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

If she is, then she needs to make this clear if she wants people to take it seriously. And perhaps drop the narrative that no one in the women's sector is fighting this.

The idea that the whole of the women's sector are doing nothing about this and need Posie to shake them up is an insult IMO

I disagree. They’re not doing enough. Because they’re scared. I understand why, but that’s not an acceptable response.

The sector (with few notable exceptions) are handing over everything they have worked for and sacrificing it at the alter of a men’s rights movement. Either because they’ve been wholly captured (we see you Rape Crisis) or they’re towing the line for funding.

We know that. They know that. I’m glad someone is calling it out.

howtocomplain
The idea that the whole of the women's sector are doing nothing about this and need Posie to shake them up is an insult IMO.

If the current 'experts' running the women's shelters had been doing their jobs properly, this would never have happened in the first place. Their sole job is to protect women. End of. The fact that it has come to this is a travesty. Shame on them.

I will be donating to Posie, if nothing else this will hopefully raise more awareness of the failings in this sector.

Howtocomplain What are you doing to support women? Because all you’ve done is come into a thread to moan about someone else who is actually trying to make improvements.

Good for Posie. She is a courageous woman and I respect her for that.

@AyeRobot

Huh? I don't get the naysayers - it was the bloody experts who let the men in! If they'd said "sorry, this is a service for women who have specific needs , but we'll share our knowledge of how to go setting up your own provision", then Posie wouldn't be doing this. In fact, I would suggest that if the providers of services for women had said no, then Posie probably wouldn't have done very much at all about any of this.

I suspect that this is classic Posie & her aim is to get the existing providers to step up to the damn plate. Good for her.

I'm sympathetic with this view, tbh.

I think Posie will (hopefully):

1 Publicise what is bloody well happening in the sector

2 Embarrass politicians who supposedly give a shit about VAWG

3 Highlight that "there are lots of managers and people with influence in the sector who need pulling up on wtf they think they're doing, bringing men into women's spaces" (to quote howtocomplain)

I think that point 2 is very important, especially at a moment when Liz Truss is standing her ground. This issue needs exposure, and the time is now.

I agree SpindleWorl, the issue of VAWG is in the media and is a great sound bite for politicians.
However, there is an incongruence with politicians wanting to fight VAWG, and also believing that any man who declares himself a woman should be treated as such.

@VladimirCutiePutiPie

Howtocomplain What are you doing to support women? Because all you’ve done is come into a thread to moan about someone else who is actually trying to make improvements.

I work for an organisation that supports women and girls. In my free time, I organise with other feminist women locally. I'm collaborating with some others on a voluntary basis to set up a new project that will help girls, this is taking time, research, collaboration with others with the right expertise before we get anywhere near announcing it.

That OK for you?

Because anyone who doesn't is simply proving that a fool and their money are easily parted.

I agree, that's why I didn't give to RTS, that I emailed NOW before donating (to find they include men in their definition of women) and I will be giving to Posie's crowdfunder (and the one other refuge charity that has been discussed on this board that do apply the single-sex exemptions). For anything female-only related I ask first. I don't need to with Posie or anything related to Standing for Women because repeatedly we have been told who they stand for and what they do and what they will continue to do until this is over.

I have personally researched some of same rape crisis centres mentioned here.

e_

I have asked them about their employment polices and how they define 'women' and why they don't apply the single-sex exemption to their services, including (in some examples) for children. I am capable of asking questions and working out where my spare cash will be best spent for women.

Posie mentioned in a video some weeks ago about her plans for a refuge (not a rape crisis centre) and how she had been in touch with providers of single sex services. I have every confidence in her being able to maintain the courage of her convictions in the face of adversity and to deliver what she promises.

No one has to share the same opinion as me and no one if being forced to donate. If it all goes horribly wrong the naysayers can come and say I told you so.

At risk of a derail.. Anyone remember when FPFW offered up disabled toilets as a solution to 'gender neutral' facilities? Anyone remember how they went on to apologise and crowdfund £100k and got the ONS to back down on the census?

Women do great things all the time but especially when we join together.

Yay to Posie. I also hope that she does not pursue an individualist line in this but instead respects those women in the sector (those who support women-only services obviously) who have so much to offer in terms of knowledge, experience and expertise. This includes where those women might want to talk about history or disagree with her or offer alternative ways and methods. Building community and collaborating with women should be at the heart of feminism.

Surely people can see how it is beneficial to activate women around raising funds in a pot that does not need to remain anonymous. There are benefits to not drawing attention to other groups who might need to remain out of the limelight but will still benefit.

This continued push to declare Posie as driven by her ego, as being 'not a team player' is getting really tired and stale. I don't agree with everything that she does or says. I don't agree with everything Kathleen Stock says. I don't agree with everything that Julie Bindel says. I do feel that each of these women, and so, so many others, have contributed to progress for the needs of women.

I don't look for reasons to discount them and their points because there seems to be a great many people who seem to be perfectly willing to do that already.

@howtocomplain

Sorry, no way am I supporting this.

I just had a look at the crowdfunder and a little listen to the talk, where Posie charges, bull in a china shop as usual, into a sector she knows fuck all about.

If she seriously wants to move into women's services, is insulting the women who've spend fucking decades working in the sector really a good place to start?

Her ignorance & ego is dangerous. What a shame.

It should g without saying that you have the right to feel this way, but most of the women's shelters, rape crisis orgs and women-only services in the city where we live were targeted nearly a decade ago by a dedicated band of TRAs who offered them the choice of capitulating or spending years and money they didn't have in legal wrangling. Over the years many of the women who were against allowing men into those services left them and were placed by young 'progressive' feminists who are either pro-trans or of the 'be kind' persuasion. The 'by women, for women' ethos has been lost. Most of the services now appear to be run by women who aren't what I'd call feminist.

What Posie's action will do is draw attention to something most people know nothing about — that councils etc will only fund shelters that allow self-riding trans people in. Posie, is a catalyst. Her involvement will focus the spotlight on this sector, just as her posters and other actions have.

All women fight this fight in their own way. Every women who fights makes a contribution. What are you doing — apart from dissing another women who's already achieved a lot?

Women's rights campaigners expect attacks from MRA's and TRA's but I hate the way that Posie Parker is attacked by feminists.

She is raising money for women's services that will be ringfenced for women. We all know that many of the big women's orgs are being pressured to be inclusive or have been completely captured. Services for women are under threat and this campaign raises both money and the profile of the issue. She also reaches women that other feminists don't reach.

I will happily donate and be confident that if my money does not end up in the aimed for women's shelter it will end up either in a different women only shelter or in campaigning for women's rights and that is fine with me.

I’m feeling an irritation that certain posters are saying “you silly women, unthinkingly contributing to Posie’s nonsense..”. There are a lot of women here who know a LOT about this issue, who contribute in many ways to the welfare of women, and who are perfectly capable of looking at Posie’s proposal and weighing its merits and demerits (including the incalculable benefit of the power of ☀️ on this issue) and making a decision. What we don’t need is to be scolded for naivety.