Posie putting her money where her mouth is. Lets do this.

[Fallingirl]

Posie is planning to re-build the women’s sector, starting with crowd funding for a women-only refuge.

Convincing yourself that the lack of access to services and increase in domestic violence related offending has a direct correlation to trans acceptance is questionable at best.

Straw-feminist.

Imagine, if you will, that all the animal sanctuaries in a county are all "inclusive" and accept all species of domestic pet, including dogs.

I am trying to find somewhere to take some cats which were rescued from a household where they were used as bait for dog-fights. They are terrified of dogs and urinate in fear if they can smell one.

Would it be good for their psychological welfare to take them to a shelter with dogs, where they will be able to smell their fear 24/7? No. So I will take them to a cat-only shelter somewhere, where they can recover from their trauma. If

Women are female human beings, and deserve just as much consideration as traumatised cats.

@Theunamedcat are you suggesting that women subject to online abuse need domestic abuse service provision? I actually think it's utterly horrific how Posie and her family have been targeted sometimes with personal direct threats. But - and I know this because I regularly receive similar online threats and have had a stalker for 8 years who is really worrying and obsessive and threatens my family and myself .... but it is not the same thing as being abused in a domestic setting. The dynamics are very different. The trauma is worse of course if you have both. You are retraumatised if you have already experienced abuse.

"I'm sorry but this constant bitching at Posie is really cringe worthy and just feels like old-fashioned envy."
Because women's only motivation is jealousy?

Posie IS problematic - if you haven't noticed yet, you're not paying attention!

It is a shame those so desperate to make every single refuge 'inclusive' are not able to think of the other eight protected characteristics instead of just the one, and think inclusively. There is an absolute inability to listen to or even admit that female people exist who cannot access mixed sex shelters.

A bit of intersectional thinking, inclusiveness towards those females and a bit of #bekind would solve many problems. The obvious thing would be to make SOME shelters mixed sex and others female only, and permit female people to make choices according to their needs.

But in the meantime, isn't it amazing that female people say shit, we have a fucking huge problem here with vulnerable females not able to escape life threatening situations because the publicly funded ones have been made inaccessible to them - let's fund something urgently for them ourselves while we try to sort this mess out. And instead of saying hey, look, a quick solution to do something practical about it, there's a whole lot of arguing.

There are women on this thread asking for help and there are others griping with each other about....well about what?

No wonder women can't get help when this shit goes on. The ratio of bitching to helping is completely wrong.

If you would like to donate to existing women's only services, click here.

niaendingviolence.org.uk/

Thank you that's so kind of you Cleanandpress. Feel same as your brother because have disabilities and if leave partner again will be same situation as your brother. There's refuge for mental health and my mental health badly affected by everything but it's mixed with drug and alcohol issues. I'm frightened of that because partner very violent when he drinks. Very honest also think too temptation for me to be around drug takers as feel like I want to be out of it to forget everything. I'm sorry for your brother so good you helped him. I don't think most people care but in case anyone does there's no refuges or services specialist for disabled women. Too scared and frightened and tired to trust stranger on internet I think but maybe I think about it as maybe not much to lose.

Talk to us. You are right, it's not about trans at all, it's about you.

Seconding this - this is just so shit, I have no other words for it really nosafeguardingadults

I wish I could click my fingers and make it right. For you and all the other women in similar situations. If we have to start again we will and quite frankly I'm excited at the opportunity to do something and build something real for women like you.

Posie mentioned her mother's neighbour who was so badly beaten she had no teeth left. We hear about this all the time, the rough sex defence, the women killed and the men who kill them getting let off or given little to no punishment by judges who are often also men.

I'm just sick and tired of it.

If you want something done, you have to do it yourself and we will do it with fivers and tenners if we have to.

@howtocomplain

But Posie isn’t foolish, so I expect she is well aware of this

How well do you actually know her? Because if all you have to go on is her media persona, you don't know her very well. I don't think anyone who her anyone would call Posie a team player.

There are many, many women within the sector campaigning on this already. She hasn't even bothered to talk to them to see what they're doing, don't you think that's a bit odd?

If she's serious about doing this, I hope she finds an actual feminist organisation to partner with pretty damn quick, that actually has the experience, skills and people skills to know where to start with supporting women.

How do you know that what you’re claiming is true? How do you know who she has and hasn’t spoken to? There are too many so called ‘feminist organisations’ who seem to have forgotten to place females at the centre of their endeavours.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

You did that so much more politely than I did. Why can I never learn to hold my temper and do subtle?

Well isn't this lovely.

Maybe those with issues should take those onto platforms where Posie can actually answer the criticism being levelled at her.

Posie is good friends with Julia Long, am I right? Are her 'qualifications' good enough as being knowledgeable about what's involved in setting up a new refuge entails, or does the trashing of Posie move onto the women she can lean on around her as insufficiently credible as well?

The trashing of what posie is trying to do here isn't really convincing anyone that this is a genuine gripe/concern, instead of a petty personal ongoing dispute that frankly no one wants to hear anything more about.

I'm mulling over making a contribution. I'll decide based on whether I can afford it, and whether I think posie is genuinely trying to do something good/helpful for women. Personal gripes of those who kick off in uncontrollable rage will make no difference to my decision on whether to contribute or not.

Carry on shouting into the void about posie. It's really doesn't make those with personal issues over posie look incapable of some self restraint or dignified silence getting on with their own interests & leaving Posie to hers. Nope, this looks absolutely fine 🤨

I am going to think about it too.

My brother spends his weekly UC on Stella and chips from Asda but he has a basic bank account he can't overdraw with so no debt worries, he has his own private space now to drink his cans and watch the snooker. He's never been violent. I'm sorry you are with a violent man. My brother didn't need and wasn't helped by homeless places, he was helped by being seen as a worthy human with dignity that needed a new bed and sheets, plates and cups and a flat door he could close, and to know he wasn't completely uncared for.

The trashing of what posie is trying to do here isn't really convincing anyone that this is a genuine gripe/concern, instead of a petty personal ongoing dispute that frankly no one wants to hear anything more about.

This.

Thirding what has been said, nosafeguardingadults.

You matter.

[quote Jeanhatchet]@PurgatoryOfPotholes

You did that so much more politely than I did. Why can I never learn to hold my temper and do subtle? [/quote]
I dunno Jean. I laugh when I read the fruit farms talking about the "feminists" "chimping" out at each other. They kinda hit the nail on the head there.

@Artichokeleaves

Convincing yourself that the lack of access to services and increase in domestic violence related offending has a direct correlation to trans acceptance is questionable at best.

No, you've missed the point.

There are female people who are no longer able to go into refuges and escape their situation because they cannot use mixed sex spaces. They cannot.

This is a major problem for those women, who need somewhere safe to go.

Female only refuges are now tiny in number, and the aim of the political lobby steering this is to remove them altogether (see the earlier quotes about how to isolate and stamp out women resisting this.)

A bit of female acceptance would be nice. But the immediate, very serious issue is female people who need somewhere safe to escape to, and can no longer access publicly funded specialist refuges. This is why the crowdfunder has been started: to provide for these excluded and extremely vulnerable females.

I think you miss my point.

People, generally women but not exclusively, are referred to a refuge. It would be highly unusual for a person to 'turn up'at a refuge without any prior intervention from social services or the police . Refuges generally carry out extensive checks on both a victim and the subsequently named suspects. More safe and well controlled spaces for vulnerable victims are welcome. Spaces established in order to support a legal argument with the intent of challenging a recent legal case will likely struggle. If the original intent is not to support working class women who may ,through no fault of their own be dragged into hardship it's going to be a struggle.

I'm listening to BBC news right now with some white guy explaining how ethnic minorities need the likes of him on side to make any progress. He's mistaken and I believe Posie is too. Progress is built on support and empathy and something built on hate and exclusion is unlikely to serve best those intended.

The trashing of what posie is trying to do here isn't really convincing anyone that this is a genuine gripe/concern, instead of a petty personal ongoing dispute that frankly no one wants to hear anything more about.

Absolutely. It helps no one, achieves nothing. Neither does running back to twitter to moan about FWR because we don't all agree with views on posie.

@OhHolyJesus

Talk to us. You are right, it's not about trans at all, it's about you.

Seconding this - this is just so shit, I have no other words for it really nosafeguardingadults

I wish I could click my fingers and make it right. For you and all the other women in similar situations. If we have to start again we will and quite frankly I'm excited at the opportunity to do something and build something real for women like you.

Posie mentioned her mother's neighbour who was so badly beaten she had no teeth left. We hear about this all the time, the rough sex defence, the women killed and the men who kill them getting let off or given little to no punishment by judges who are often also men.

I'm just sick and tired of it.

If you want something done, you have to do it yourself and we will do it with fivers and tenners if we have to.

Yes. This.

I usually agree with every single thing Posie says on her YT videos.

This is the first time I am not cheering without reservation. I'm sure she can raise the money to build and open a refuge. The problem is, how will she fund it year on year? The council will not give any grants to any refuge which won't admit men, so Posie will have to commit to fundraising for it for years.

@howtocomplain
It’s clear you feel very passionately about this from your posts, but the problem I can see from a mile off is that the women and girls who need the support of refuges that are single sex both of the staff and volunteers, and the service users, don’t know where these single sex services are anymore. All we hear is that yet another refuge has been defunded because it didn’t accept transwomen, therefore has closed. Or that refuges north of the border are now run by transwomen who haven’t even got a GRC. No ones shouting from the rooftops about single sex provision. Posie is doing just that. Instead of condemning her, try reaching out to her and offering your advice.

There aren't many white guys (assuming you mean men) building on hate and exclusion here on mumsnet @statsgeek1 and "progress" can mean many different things.

Your comment misses the point. We've had single sex exemptions for 10 years in the Equality Act. Female only services ARE PROGRESS.

[quote Soontobe60]@howtocomplain
It’s clear you feel very passionately about this from your posts, but the problem I can see from a mile off is that the women and girls who need the support of refuges that are single sex both of the staff and volunteers, and the service users, don’t know where these single sex services are anymore. All we hear is that yet another refuge has been defunded because it didn’t accept transwomen, therefore has closed. Or that refuges north of the border are now run by transwomen who haven’t even got a GRC. No ones shouting from the rooftops about single sex provision. Posie is doing just that. Instead of condemning her, try reaching out to her and offering your advice.[/quote]
The trouble with this argument is, is that victims don't generally approach refuges directly. People are generally referred via social services, the police or medical staff. A risk assessment will establish that if a victim is terrified of trans women she is highly unlikely to be placed in a refuge where a trans woman may reside.Of course if you want that particular vulnerable trans woman to be removed as a result you'd have to state a good case. Let's be honest, trans women in refuges are not numerically common although they are still very likely to be victims of male domestic violence.

The lady from Cambridge recently went to court to ensure support for exclusion of trans people in general with regards to the EA being the norm.She wasn't successful. In fact it was declared she had little point and her argument was absurd. I know the mainstream press did not report on this but, it did happen.

Fair play to Posie, I really do hope her venture results in some good. I can't help being skeptical but, I hope I'm wrong.

Not sure how anyone could knock this and start effing and blinding about it.

Good on Posie - she’s got guts and determination. Of course she’s not going to go it alone - it will take a huge team to pull it off.

It is starts somewhere with someone who rallies others around.

The lady from Cambridge recently went to court to ensure support for exclusion of trans people in general with regards to the EA being the norm.She wasn't successful. In fact it was declared she had little point and her argument was absurd. I know the mainstream press did not report on this but, it did happen.

You are talking to people who paid for that case and watched the live tweeting very closely. Your summary is inaccurate.