School Video. Words just can’t convey...

[ConcreteUnderpants]

For all those who PM’ed and wanted me to put it on its own thread.
Here you go.

This is the video my year 6 watched at school (without any consultation with parents)
I’m just speechless.

They were also told about Robert/a Cowell and puberty blockers were mentioned, although I’m not sure of those details.

Head and deputy are the safeguarding leads at the school, so where do I start with the Governors? Overwhelmed.

@waitingforthenextseason

they are not too young. Puberty is hitting younger and younger and the accompanying feelings with it.

Puberty is not hitting younger and younger.

So there's no need to start talking to kids at ever younger ages about their own sexuality either.

Just FYI, there's been an overreliance in medical reporting on the onset of menarche as an indicator of the onset of puberty. But menarche happens at Tanner stage Three, not One and does not deliver reliable indicators of when Tanner stage One occurred.

Puberty now starts between ten and 14 for girls and between 12 and 16 for boys. Some ethnic groups start around a year or so earlier.

Archaeological evidence from medieval Britain shows puberty started between ten and 12 for both girls and boys.

Archaeological evidence from Roman Britain shows puberty started between ten and 12 for both sexes.

Archaeological evidence from Spain shows etc etc

What did change after the industrial revolution was that living conditions for many children became so inimical to growth that although they started puberty at the same age as today, the speed at which they progressed through puberty slowed down. Enormously. So the onset of menarche shifted to much later ages than before the industrial revolution or today.

And when the first medical researchers started looking at the onset of menarche in the wider female population from around the middle of the 19th century, it was at the height of that developmental delay caused by unfavourable living conditions. Since then, countless researchers have used the onset of menarche as an indicator of when puberty started and of course the change has been profound.

Sensational even. Puberty at ever younger ages! Earlier and earlier! For reasons unknown! Where is this leading to!

Er no, the reasons are mundane. Simple even. With the improvement of living conditions, pubertal development is returning to the human norm. The onset of menarche, which dropped sharply in the hundred years before the 1950s, has been stabilising in the last fifty years and now seems to be returning to the human norm as well.

Of course, that is not as sensational as the claim that pubery occurs earlier and earlier.

For a start- where is the flipping B- swapped to a Q with no explanation- referred to as B, but written as Q????? secondly- sex if assigned at birth- not the social construct of gender. If you're going to peddle this shit, at least get the facts right. I wouldn't be impressed, but sadly- this is what schools are teaching our kids. All you can do is remind them at home not to conflate sex and gender, and that the letter B is not spelt Q........

How odd, given that the vast majority of year 6 children are 10. An age which you failed to mention in your generous extension into KS3.

Year 6 are mostly age 11.
Mine were born June - August and were 10.
Most weren't though!
KS3 extends into high school and age 12 - 15

@EndoplasmicReticulum

you used a word that we are not allowed to say.

I can't tell you what it is or I'll be deleted too.

it's a four letter word, begins with a c. Not the sweary one.

Yes, I guessed as much - that's why mine got deleted too.

Funny really - can't call a spade a spade any more, got to talk in euphemisms.

@Stealhsquirrelnutkin

I can see myself using this video as a teaching tool. I'd use it to teach children to look below the surface of an online video, and analyse the content.

I can see it being very useful as part of the curriculum that teaches them critical thinking skills and helps them spot the techniques used in advertising and online videos that aim to manipulate them, and do not have their best interests at heart.

I'd want to help them them to recognise the tricks the presenter is using, coming up with their own suggestions as to what might have motivated her to choose that syrupy, sing song voice, the chalk board, scattered crayons, and the "Teddy is my best friend" schtick.

Then I'd ask them to consider the "gender assigned at birth" statement. What really happens when a baby is born? How do we know what sex a baby is? Then I'd ask them if they thought all boy babies grew up to have be interested in doing the same things? What does it mean if a girl prefers playing with "boy" toys or a boy likes "girl" toys? Is it possible for adult males to enjoy cooking and keeping the house tidy? Do grown women ever use power tools? Does it make them any less male or female if they do those things?

I'd show them photographs of children from the past and ask if they could spot which were the girls and which were the girls? Looking at formal portraits from centuries past when they all wore dresses and had long hair, and then photographs from the 30's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Including photos of David Bowie, Adam Ant, Joan Armatrading and Annie Lennox, asking if they could tell which of them was male and which was female?

Then I'd ask them to consider why the Queer Kids videos were made. What was their intended influence? Who was the target audience? What does the presenter gain from making those films and getting children to watch them?

That's just off the top of my head, but I do think that children are susceptible to to pernicious online propaganda, and teaching them how to spot fraud, lies and unsavoury intent so that they have some defence against the things they'll encounter online is important. Year six is probably a reasonable time to start equipping them to resist online manipulation, you can't leave it too late or their immaturity and inexperience will make them easy prey.

This is a good use of a pernicious online video. The only caveat I'd have in doing the same is in case the children felt some sympathy with the presenter, and that you were being "too mean".

I agree that it needs to be done before they leave primary - the amount of shit I hear about what even Y5 kids get up to, let alone Y6 and Y7 on social media (and I KNOW they're not supposed to be, but so many are these days, it's really bad!) - so yes, they need to be taught more about the manipulations out there.

My 13yo DS1 has just had a stern talking to about a SJW he was watching on Youtube, who is a female MRA. He had to be re-educated as to what being a feminist actually meant, as opposed to what this SJW said it meant. And he'd even been made to watch Social Dilemma on Netflix, so should have known better! Always have to be vigilant, they fall down rabbit holes so easily without realising :(

@Mockolate

How odd, given that the vast majority of year 6 children are 10. An age which you failed to mention in your generous extension into KS3.

Year 6 are mostly age 11.
Mine were born June - August and were 10.
Most weren't though!
KS3 extends into high school and age 12 - 15

Children in year six turn 11 from 1st September. So they have their birthdays through the course of the school year, meaning most of them will be 11 by this point. But the film was shown earlier in the year according to the OP, when most of them would have been 10.

Honestly, I do find these repeated attempts to suggest children are older than they are quite sinister.

Honestly, I do find these repeated attempts to suggest children are older than they are quite sinister

Yes I really don't get why these kids apparently know so much about themselves so young. Much younger than aby other child. Able to articulate wanting god to correct his mistakes while the rest of us pull our kids out of dog bowls and still using reins.

Honestly knowing some families have 2 mums or 2 dads is about all they need to know . The rest should be covered by a decent anti bullying policy.

Where are all the videos to show old people in nursing homes?

Just had to go Google as had me doubting myself - Year 6 age 10 - 11, just like I said.
Was just pointing it out, nothing sinister about it

@Mockolate

Just had to go Google as had me doubting myself - Year 6 age 10 - 11, just like I said. Was just pointing it out, nothing sinister about it

You said they were 'mostly 11'. They're not.

It's sinister because of posters like @waitingforthenextseason suggesting this video was shown to 11, 12 and 13 year olds. Repeatedly asserting that children are older than they actually are is a red flag for boundary breaking.

@Mockolate

Just had to go Google as had me doubting myself - Year 6 age 10 - 11, just like I said. Was just pointing it out, nothing sinister about it

What does it matter? 10 or 11 this video is not for them. The host LA has no training whatsoever in children, she has no idea that 3 or 4 year olds cant understand what shes saying and above that age teddies and sing song voices are just patronising. That's leaving out the obvious lies.

Just a note for the OP @ConcreteUnderpants , is it possible to get some of the other mums/parents to get on the warpath too? Not as a gang, as that will backfire (you will seem like an enemy) but individually?

I do appreciate that people unaware of the issues will have a big mountain to climb to realize the enormity of the issues here, though.
Good luck

I just want to clarify that it appears that this was shown to Yr 6 without the knowledge of the HT and DT (both lead safeguards as well).
I’m not making excuses at all and I’m still outraged, but I don’t want to alarm everyone that this is part of the regular PHSE lesson plans.

I am unsure as to how many parents know about this showing as like I said, it was shown a while ago and I only discovered it by accident recently. This makes me more mad.

My first thread (www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4251031-School-RSE-Consultation) was actually about asking for a few pointers to help me as I suffer from extreme anxiety.
But this thread has helped me so much too.
I wasn’t aware any other concerned parents before, but now I know I am not alone and confirmed I’m not the crazy one overreacting!
Thank you all. Your support and encouragement has been invaluable and given me strength to agree to the meeting.

Stealhsquirrelnutkin:

"I can see myself using this video as a teaching tool. I'd use it to teach children to look below the surface of an online video, and analyse the content.

"I can see it being very useful as part of the curriculum that teaches them critical thinking skills and helps them spot the techniques used in advertising and online videos that aim to manipulate them, and do not have their best interests at heart..."

Exactly.

That teddy would creep me out, whatever it was saying.

That video was far worse than I was expecting. Firstly, the word “queer” which I detest;; secondly, the erasure of bisexual (is it because of the pesky reference to “two”; and finally the utter shite about assigning a gender. It’s sex and it’s not ‘assigned’ it’s usually bloody obvious.

At first I thought this video was using the word ‘gender’ as a euphemism for ‘sex’, but now I think it was on purpose to merge gender with sex.

In Y6, I was starting to have the first inklings that I liked girls (I’m bi) My body had just begun to change and I hated it. If I’d seen this video, I’d have assumed I must really be a boy.

It’s hugely misleading - but, then, that’s all it can be, isn’t it? Because if we start giving more detail and differentiating between sex and gender, we have to talk about what it means to ‘feel like a boy’ or ‘to be happy with the ‘gender’ you were ‘assigned’ at birth. Then the truth is laid bare - stereotypes, stereotypes, silly regressive stereotypes.

This isn’t an educational video. It’s trite, infantilising lies and propaganda.

The host LA has no training whatsoever in children, she has no idea that 3 or 4 year olds cant understand what shes saying and above that age teddies and sing song voices are just patronising.

Yes, it's an utterly bizarre mix of a tone of voice and use of props (Teddy) that one would use with 3-4 year olds and concepts and terminology that can only be understood by much older children. "Understood" is probably the wrong word, as what the presenter is saying is actually untrue, but you know what I mean.

They don’t tell you what “gender” your baby is at birth, they tell you what sex it is, and it isn’t “assigned” , it’s observed.

Bloody hell, I don't know what's worse, the bullshit or that it's so naff.

Actually, that's a lie. I do know which is worse. It's the bullshit.

@CharlieParley great overview of the true facts about puberty/menarche....people who use the myth that ‘puberty begins earlier and earlier these days’ to justify teaching complex ideas about sexuality, gender and identity at a younger and younger age need this information.

Using this myth is a safeguarding red flag - people who want to break through normal levels of protection will say kids consented to sexual activity, or they argue that kids are mature enough to make life changing decisions about medical/pharma interventions.

Makes me wonder how much the presenter was paid to preach these lies at her silly sermon.

Honestly knowing some families have 2 mums or 2 dads is about all they need to know . The rest should be covered by a decent anti bullying policy.

Absolutely. At best, kids will be totally confused or not know what is going on at all. 'Age Appropriate' education doesn't just mean avoiding graphic languge, it means keeping it simple enough that young children grasp it easily. This is very much not that, ti's trying to introduce very young children to a recent and very controversial school of theory (queer theory) that many adults struggle to understand because it doesn't make sense.

Adults should define the basic terms of what they are teaching before they even think about telling kids. We have alot of things that gender and being trans isnt but no one can make up their mind what it actually is. And are completely unable to break down the terms into something anyone can actually understand.

I actually don't think it needs anymore time than:
"Some men wear dresses and some women wear trousers. That's fine. Clothes are for everyone, going naked isn't an option."