School Video. Words just can’t convey...

[ConcreteUnderpants]

For all those who PM’ed and wanted me to put it on its own thread.
Here you go.

This is the video my year 6 watched at school (without any consultation with parents)
I’m just speechless.

They were also told about Robert/a Cowell and puberty blockers were mentioned, although I’m not sure of those details.

Head and deputy are the safeguarding leads at the school, so where do I start with the Governors? Overwhelmed.

@waitingforthenextseason

I'm not sidestepping it. If a 11, 12, 13.... year old comes to me and says they feel that they're 'this' as opposed to 'that', then who the hell am I to tell them they can't feel that way and live their life accordingly. They're not hurting anybody else, but we're hurting them to tell them that 'who' they are is who we tell them they must be, not who they feel they are. Even if you'd call it their opinion as opposed to a fact.

But conflating sex and gender is harmful. If a girl says that she feels like she is a boy or that she is a boy, you have to be able to understand the difference between sex and gender to be able to explain her feelings. A child will feel whatever they feel, of course, but our job as grownups is to help them make sense of the world and to help them understand boundaries.

You are harming children if you let them make decisions to transition without them properly understanding what sex and gender are, that it is impossible either to be born in the wrong body or to change sex and that while expectations of personality and interests associated with a sex do exist, they can be ignored and that almost no one adheres to them all and many people adhere to very few of them or none of them at all. They might feel like they were born in the wrong body or feel like they want to change sex, but being accepting of those feelings doesn’t mean that you also have to say that sex is mutable/can be changed/is a spectrum/doesn’t exist/is unimportant. Rather accepting those feelings can just mean helping a child to understand the world as it is and helping to find a comfortable space for then within that world, so that they can authentically understand and describe who they are, feelings, body and all, but within the boundaries of reality.

Lots of deleted posts in this thread.

Shame we can't talk about a video which is being shown to very small kids which contains factually incorrect informantion and rather controversial and confusing ideas.

@ShagMeRiggins

Paraphrasing:

Lindsay: “Teddy, do you remember when your new little baby bear brother was born?”

Teddy: “Of course!”

Lindsay: “Well, do you remember the very first thing you learned about the new baby bear in your life?”

Teddy: “Um...that he cried a lot?”

Lindsay: “ No, Teddy. What you probably learned is that your new baby bear brother...was a boy.”

Teddy: “Oh yeah...that’s definitely it.”

Don’t tell a child what their memories are Lindsay, you manipulative fuck.

That struck me too. Yuck.

@waitingforthenextseason

I'm not sidestepping it. If a 11, 12, 13.... year old comes to me and says they feel that they're 'this' as opposed to 'that', then who the hell am I to tell them they can't feel that way and live their life accordingly. They're not hurting anybody else, but we're hurting them to tell them that 'who' they are is who we tell them they must be, not who they feel they are. Even if you'd call it their opinion as opposed to a fact.

You've just shown that you don't even know how old a year 6 child is. I think we can discount your opinion entirely on that basis.

This born in the wrong body nonsense is such ableist shit.

Hats off to children who cope with actual problems: childhood cancer, cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy. Must be nice for your biggest problem to be how you fit in with gender stereotypes.

I'm sick of this counting problem taking up valuable time and resources. Children should learn in year six that families come in all shapes and sizes. Heterosexual, homosexual, step, adopted etc.
Instead it's the fucking oppression Olympics.
Schools should be given proper support in helping people with differences fit in. Extra money for autism diagnosis for 1:1 instead they're wasting time and money on brainwashing children into thinking stereotypes tell you anything.

Fucking sick of this shit.

That was cunting not counting. I'm that pissed off.

@SunnydaleClassProtector99

This born in the wrong body nonsense is such ableist shit.

Hats off to children who cope with actual problems: childhood cancer, cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy. Must be nice for your biggest problem to be how you fit in with gender stereotypes.

I'm sick of this counting problem taking up valuable time and resources. Children should learn in year six that families come in all shapes and sizes. Heterosexual, homosexual, step, adopted etc.
Instead it's the fucking oppression Olympics.
Schools should be given proper support in helping people with differences fit in. Extra money for autism diagnosis for 1:1 instead they're wasting time and money on brainwashing children into thinking stereotypes tell you anything.

Fucking sick of this shit.

@SunnydaleClassProtector99 agree with every word.

What in the name of fuck did I just watch?

Seriously.

Everything else aside that's a really stupid way of explaining trans to kids. Even if you buy into it it doesn't make anything very clear.

But most of all that just gave me the creeps. There's no fucking information given Doctors just pick a gender for you and they sometimes get it wrong. ODFOD. HOW? How do doctors decide? They can't explain it because they have to say true things that they don't want to believe.

I'd never assume a 11 Yr old was straight. They are too young to know their sexuality so putting a label on them is pointless

This with bells on. Eleven year olds need time and space to mature and explore who they're going to be. Adults expecting them to label themselves with an orientation before they're sexually or emotionally mature enough to do so are just plain weird. And creepy.

@ConcreteUnderpants

For all those who PM’ed and wanted me to put it on its own thread. Here you go.

This is the video my year 6 watched at school (without any consultation with parents)
I’m just speechless.

They were also told about Robert/a Cowell and puberty blockers were mentioned, although I’m not sure of those details.

Head and deputy are the safeguarding leads at the school, so where do I start with the Governors? Overwhelmed.

Was this in a primary school in the UK?

So we all know we aren't supposed to use cis directed at a specific poster.

So to circumvent this certain posters use it clearly addressing a large number of us at once instead. When many have asked for this not to happen.

They're taking the piss really.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Does it not worry you wait that in order to be "supportive" as you put it you have to lie?

Sex is observed at birth. Gender is not assigned . Dont you think children deserve the truth? Why is not wanting to lie to children seen as unsupportive?

I would bloody love an answer to this.

@stickygotstuck

What schools should really have a drive to improve aural & reading comprehension, since so many adults in this post don't seem to understand what's being said.

I don't get why there are PP saying that the existence of LGB and T people should be talked about to and accepted by children. That's self evident. But that's not the issue here. The issue here is that this video is lying to children and spouting factually inaccurate information as accurate. A bit like saying the Sun revolvers around the Earth. It just doesn't. No matter how loud and how often you say or who says it.

This.

It always becomes apparent on these threads (such as the Non such school thread) that posters either have no idea about safeguarding children, the Dept of Education guidelines as per October 2020 changes, are more likely not to have school age children and more likely to have an agenda of their own to push (or any combination of these together or singularly).

Telling young people that doctors ‘assign gender’ and that sometimes they get it ‘wrong’ is very much against the Dept of Education guidelines. It is not based on fact. I suggest anyone bringing in ‘intersex’ (which many don’t like to have their condition referred to as, by the way) to provide the exact % of those with differences of sex development that cannot be reliably categorized by sex at birth with modern techniques of their genitals indicate their may be issues. Of course there are a vanishingly small %, because even those with genital differences tend to be either a male with a difference in sex development or female with a difference in sex development.

There are a very small number where the differences present later but they are still able to be categorized.

You are right, a child should know some children have these conditions but not that ‘doctors have got it wrong’ and NOT left thinking they might be one of those with one of these conditions.

There are ways to discuss this, this video is not it.

And I see many posters have again resorted to the ‘all or nothing’ accusations. ‘If you think this video is poor then you are obviously not wanting these topics covered.’

Tired old trope. Please stop it and maybe read up on the Dof E guidance and some basic safeguarding concepts for children.

You've just shown that you don't even know how old a year 6 child is. I think we can discount your opinion entirely on that basis.

Funny, I work in a primary school and know exactly how old they are. My example extended into KS3 ages, years 7 and 8, because I was talking about my own child's exposure to these issues starting in Year 6.

Absolutely shockingly appalling load of codswallop. I’m horrified by this video and would go beyond the board of governors to the LEA.

@waitingforthenextseason

You've just shown that you don't even know how old a year 6 child is. I think we can discount your opinion entirely on that basis.

Funny, I work in a primary school and know exactly how old they are. My example extended into KS3 ages, years 7 and 8, because I was talking about my own child's exposure to these issues starting in Year 6.

What is your understanding of this video then in the light of the Department of Education’a new guidance from last year and in light of the school’s Safeguarding responsibilities for yr 6?

You have state you don’t have an issue with the video. I’d be interested how you interpret in light of the guidance etc.

I'd love to know who all these mysterious doctors are who assign gender at birth. Has anyone come across one in the maternity ward?
'Ah well done Mrs Jones, you have a bouncy baby who'll grow up to enjoy flower arranging and performing femininity. Oh no, don't put her in a blue babygro! That's not the colour she's been assigned.'
None of this shit makes any sense without stereotypes. None of it.

I am appalled that this video has been shown to children at school. I think it is so wrong and feel our children are being let down

I distinctly remember the gender sorting hat at the birth of my two.

Congrats Ms Just you have a neutrois!

That is appalling, OP.

Wilfully confusing.

'
People who are trans can be boys or girls or people too' - people can be people? IT DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING

@waitingforthenextseason

You've just shown that you don't even know how old a year 6 child is. I think we can discount your opinion entirely on that basis.

Funny, I work in a primary school and know exactly how old they are. My example extended into KS3 ages, years 7 and 8, because I was talking about my own child's exposure to these issues starting in Year 6.

How odd, given that the vast majority of year 6 children are 10. An age which you failed to mention in your generous extension into KS3.

If you work in a primary school, why are you talking about secondary school children?

I would be rather worried if a primary teacher was keen on showing age inappropriate content to ks2 children. No that this is appropriate to ks3 either because it's shit and infantilising and does not meet DfE standards

What cobblers.

Still, as Hamlet said, 'each cat will mew, and dog will have its day'.

@waitingforthenextseason

You've just shown that you don't even know how old a year 6 child is. I think we can discount your opinion entirely on that basis.

Funny, I work in a primary school and know exactly how old they are. My example extended into KS3 ages, years 7 and 8, because I was talking about my own child's exposure to these issues starting in Year 6.

They are aged 10 to 11. Last year at Primary. Too young to be exposed to that sort of video.

I can see myself using this video as a teaching tool. I'd use it to teach children to look below the surface of an online video, and analyse the content.

I can see it being very useful as part of the curriculum that teaches them critical thinking skills and helps them spot the techniques used in advertising and online videos that aim to manipulate them, and do not have their best interests at heart.

I'd want to help them them to recognise the tricks the presenter is using, coming up with their own suggestions as to what might have motivated her to choose that syrupy, sing song voice, the chalk board, scattered crayons, and the "Teddy is my best friend" schtick.

Then I'd ask them to consider the "gender assigned at birth" statement. What really happens when a baby is born? How do we know what sex a baby is? Then I'd ask them if they thought all boy babies grew up to have be interested in doing the same things? What does it mean if a girl prefers playing with "boy" toys or a boy likes "girl" toys? Is it possible for adult males to enjoy cooking and keeping the house tidy? Do grown women ever use power tools? Does it make them any less male or female if they do those things?

I'd show them photographs of children from the past and ask if they could spot which were the girls and which were the girls? Looking at formal portraits from centuries past when they all wore dresses and had long hair, and then photographs from the 30's, 60's, 70's and 80's. Including photos of David Bowie, Adam Ant, Joan Armatrading and Annie Lennox, asking if they could tell which of them was male and which was female?

Then I'd ask them to consider why the Queer Kids videos were made. What was their intended influence? Who was the target audience? What does the presenter gain from making those films and getting children to watch them?

That's just off the top of my head, but I do think that children are susceptible to to pernicious online propaganda, and teaching them how to spot fraud, lies and unsavoury intent so that they have some defence against the things they'll encounter online is important. Year six is probably a reasonable time to start equipping them to resist online manipulation, you can't leave it too late or their immaturity and inexperience will make them easy prey.