Sex in tv shows/films becoming more aggressive

[wearetheweirdosmr]

Maybe aggressive is the wrong term but while watching 'The Nevers' and Something else the sex scenes included the men putting hands around the women's throats.
These weren't rough sex scenes, or violent sex but supposedly loving relationships.
It has left me feeling very uncomfortable and sad.

This isn't normal sex as far as my experience goes.

That is horrible.

Nobody has ever tried throttling me but I do remember, when I was young and 'seeing' people, there did seem to be a tendency for a man to put his open palm up against the bottom of my neck, fingers and thumb splayed. No more than that but I never saw the point of it and would move.

What is it about this exactly? It is hardly going to give pleasure.

Yes and sexual violence man to woman has been depicted more and more frequently over the years as well it's pretty much normalised now.

There is a very broad spectrum from "it putting a hand on a (consenting) woman's throat" and "throttling".

Should hands round a woman's throat be depicted in consenting sex when we have

The knowledge that women are having this done without their consent
The knowledge that older teens etc are getting the message already that this is standard in sex
The fact the law here has changed to remove the defence of fun strangling in the murder of women
The fact that it's really dangerous and can kill very quickly

??

I think there needs to be a little more information here. People have always touched people's necks during sex, in a way that could be described as putting a hand around it, it's sometimes considered an intimate sort of touch, and it's been shown in intimate sex scenes reasonably often. It's totally not the same as choking someone.

So, what's actually being depicted in these scenes? Can you give an example of what you mean in a film or on tv?

OP said a couple of the progs that do it in OP. I've not seen them.

Trying to remember if I've ever put my hands round a man's neck during sex. Pretty sure not. Or had it done to me.

Mouths yes obv. Different obv

And given the points above, should mainstream TV be alluding to it?

That's my point.
It isn't something that should be normalised given how dangerous it can be. How abusive it feels.

I think it's in either the final or penultimate episode of The nevers definitely. I'm not sure what the other programme was but it struck me because I saw it twice today.

So can you describe them? Like, did they just out their hands around her neck, or where they making it appear they were actually going to strangle her, or was their pressure applied...

I actually don't think sex scenes should generally be in films or tv at all, I think they create a huge employment issue for the whole industry, mainly.

But they also are 99% of the time to cover poor writing and plotting or to push an envelope (titillation or shock) and as such, they tend to always go farther and farther. Which is a problem, I think a lot of shows, even ones that are otherwise quite good, increasingly are written to include what is essentially porn with high production values.

But I don't think in general it is useful or productive to equate things that seem similar to something bad, to something bad. Rather than making people more aware of the bad thing it tends to convince people that the bad thing is not so serious after all. So if they are showing choking during supposedly normal sex scenes, that's bad, but if it's not that - it's not that.

The Netflix TV series Marseille was like that. Hands, scarves, all sorts. Stopped watching after a couple of episodes because of it.

The OP has watched the things and she felt how she felt.

I'm happy to discuss it based on that. A description will not be as informative as seeing it and short of finding the episodes and saying here's the link and it's at this time (a fair bit of effort esp to find something she didn't like!) I don't see what more she can do. Also a clip loses context.

She's not saying ban it or anything. She just wants to discuss.

I think on a chat board then accepting that it happens and talking. Is better than saying well I don't trust what you're saying- prove it to me first and no doubt different views as to bad/ not bad will follow. Which will involve a whole bunch of women on fwr having to watch a sex scene with hands round neck and analyse it.

Which would be a bit odd.

It stands out when sex is done well. For all I think Henry Cavill is dodgy, The Witcher sex scenes were broadly better than the norm. Seemingly consensual and not just women having sex done to them.

@NiceGerbil

The OP has watched the things and she felt how she felt.

I'm happy to discuss it based on that. A description will not be as informative as seeing it and short of finding the episodes and saying here's the link and it's at this time (a fair bit of effort esp to find something she didn't like!) I don't see what more she can do. Also a clip loses context.

I'm sorry, what is actually depicted is kind of the point when the question is whether sex in tv and films is becoming more aggressive and including certain things where it didn't normally before.

Presumably the OP is asking in order to compare her impression with others, but it's difficult to do so if she doesn't say what she means. And it would be a perfectly legitimate answer, if it were true, for someone to say, I think that sort of thing has been around on films a long time and is not new. There isn't much point in the OP asking the question if the working assumption has to be that her impression is correct. That doesn't even make sense.

It's not a terribly difficult request to give a bit more information on what she saw depicted. The OP said "putting hands around a woman's throat" which is not that descriptive. A pp managed to give more information about a show she saw without too much trouble.

@NiceGerbil

She's not saying ban it or anything. She just wants to discuss.

I think on a chat board then accepting that it happens and talking. Is better than saying well I don't trust what you're saying- prove it to me first and no doubt different views as to bad/ not bad will follow. Which will involve a whole bunch of women on fwr having to watch a sex scene with hands round neck and analyse it.

Which would be a bit odd.

No topic works this way, that a person says "this is the case" and everyone has to agree even if they think it isn't. But the OP asked if other people had the same impression.

I agree it should not be normalised. Bad enough that removing all pubic hair is normalised, and all sex scenes never mention condoms, but this is worse.

I have noticed this as well and it’s horrible.

I didn’t like the Nevers for this reason and also for how violent the fighting scenes were between the women and men. I really don’t like this new feminist stuff where women on tv seem to go up against men as if they are as strong as the 20 stone men. I think despite it being fantasy it sends all sort of weird messages about it being okay for men to be violent towards women because they’re equal to men physically. Possibly controversial of me there but I don’t like it. But then I really don’t like lots of fighting or explicit violence full stop really.

I really don’t like this new feminist stuff where women on tv seem to go up against men as if they are as strong as the 20 stone men. I think despite it being fantasy it sends all sort of weird messages about it being okay for men to be violent towards women because they’re equal to men physically

I agree with this, something that I really started to notice in the Marvel universe with Black Widow, and it’s becoming increasingly normalised, and it’s downright dangerous to push the idea that women can fight men and come off better. Buffy worked because she was a superhero who had super strength, not a normal woman who ‘trained hard enough’ to fight men, which is what the narrative seems to be lately.

@TrifleCat

I really don’t like this new feminist stuff where women on tv seem to go up against men as if they are as strong as the 20 stone men. I think despite it being fantasy it sends all sort of weird messages about it being okay for men to be violent towards women because they’re equal to men physically

I agree with this, something that I really started to notice in the Marvel universe with Black Widow, and it’s becoming increasingly normalised, and it’s downright dangerous to push the idea that women can fight men and come off better. Buffy worked because she was a superhero who had super strength, not a normal woman who ‘trained hard enough’ to fight men, which is what the narrative seems to be lately.

Exactly. You’ve worded that better than me.

There are, or used to be, a set of guidelines about showing TV characters driving. Unsafe behaviours, such as not wearing a seatbelt, checking a phone, or speeding, were to be avoided - unless the point of the scene was to show a character driving dangerously.

Maybe sex should be the same - the norm on screen should be safe, consensual activity, and any departures from that need to be justified.

Although Pretty Woman gets a lot of stick for many valid reasons, the safe sex message comes through loud and clear when she gets her condoms out!

@NiceGerbil

Should hands round a woman's throat be depicted in consenting sex when we have

The knowledge that women are having this done without their consent
The knowledge that older teens etc are getting the message already that this is standard in sex
The fact the law here has changed to remove the defence of fun strangling in the murder of women
The fact that it's really dangerous and can kill very quickly

??

Last night I was thinking about drunken sex, consent and young adults. How kids really should be taught that every sexual encounter should start with something like "I consent to be touched gently and slowly and I need you to be mindful that at any time I may need to remind you to be gentler or slower or stop entirely."

Arguably that is the sort of stuff that should be added to many sex scenes on the screen if we care about teaching kids about consent.

And if I'm even half right about the above then when the sex is anywhere on the BDSM spectrum then the consent to a specific kind of potentially painful or harmful sex needs to be absolutely 100% specific and included a mention of safe words / protections between the couple.

Suggesting any form of BDSM is "normal sex" that doesn't need additional protections is wrong.

To be clear - I am in no way prudish and have no problem with informed consenting adults engaging safely (I hope that idn't need saying).

The sex being portrayed was BDSM. It was a normal sex scene EXCEPT the man put his hands around her neck.
It wasn't a choke or strangulation scenario.

I just feel that actually most people don't put their hands around their partners throats, that putting your hands around someone's throat during sex is always about power, that it puts the women in a vulnerable position.

'Normal' sex scenes seem to include this more and more and that was the point of my post.

Wasn't BDSM sorry

But the OP has given two progs as examples.

Others have said they've seen it as well.

So you lot. Off you go and find them on s steaming service and link with the X mins and seconds in. Otherwise this topic is not allowable be for discussion.

If someone says to be I saw this on telly the other day. I don't say prove it! What a peculiar way to live.

I suppose women can be pretty unreliable though...

S2 of Mr Robot had lots of scenes with one of the rich female characters having an affair with a less well-off ‘bit of fluff’ type and frequently showed her haranguing the man into roughly choking her during sex. I hated it, the storyline made no sense to me, it was horrible to watch, and it came across as titillation very much written from a male point of view. It gave no insight into the character.

I’m in agreement with the OP that in the last 15 years or so television has gone much more aggressive and graphic with sex scenes and, in general, I find them off-putting because they often feel like the scenes are there as a tick box exercise to demonstrate the programme’s edginess or how ‘with it’ the writers are