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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

First transgender player to win a US pro golf tournament

68 replies

andyoldlabour · 20/05/2021 16:05

On 13th May, Hailey Davidson won a women's mini tour event at Providence golf club Orlando, thus becoming the first transgender player to win a US pro golf tournament. Hailey was previously playing in the male category at college. It should be noted that the Providence course length was 6,300 yards, whereas the St Andrews course length for the Men's Open is 7,300 yards, and the Augusta National US Masters course is 7,475 yards.

progolfweekly.com/ex-male-college-golfer-eyes-lpga-tour-after-reassignment-surgery/

www.dailywire.com/news/trans-golfer-who-played-on-mens-college-team-snags-womens-title-eyes-lpga?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_camp

www.instagram.com/haileydgolf/?hl=en-gb

eu.floridatoday.com/story/sports/2021/05/14/transgender-woman-hailey-davidson-wins-florida-golf-lpga-hopes/5100720001/

OP posts:
Feelinghothothottoday · 20/05/2021 22:58

It’s taken years for women to be taken seriously in golf.

misscockerspaniel · 21/05/2021 08:10

I was going to say that the time has come for female competitors to strike/boycott events but WTF, what we actually need is for all politicians and sporting bodies to ban males whatever their age or ability from taking part in female sport, from the elite to grassroot level.

EdgeOfACoin · 21/05/2021 08:36

The fact that mtf transitioners spend so much effort trying to reduce their natural physical advantage, just shows how much they aren't able to compete as females.

A female athlete does everything in her power (legally) to be in the best form possible for her sport. She isn't taking drugs to suppress testosterone because that would be wholly counterproductive. She wants to attain peak physical fitness, not reduce it!

Transgender people were 'born in the wrong body'. Whether we are meant to take that statement literally or figuratively is irrelevant. They have the wrong body for sex-segregated sport and that's just an unfortunate fact of life. I have the wrong body to be a supermodel. I will pick another profession.

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 21/05/2021 08:58

I read the headline and knew immediately that it referred to a transwoman and not a transman.

Erikrie · 21/05/2021 09:04

I guess that's the benefit of being a born male who has experienced male puberty. They get a huge advantage over women when playing against them. That's why we had sex segregated sport, so women could compete fairly in their own sex class. But now the feelings of born males are considered more important than fairness for women. Which has always been the case.

Tibtom · 21/05/2021 09:22

Tennis, specifically, is where they need to win. It will stop some men mid wank in their tracks and they might do something about it.

You forget Renee Richards, who now agrees it is unfair

But if you look at the wimbledon prize money you will see there is certainly a big incentive to cheat.

NotBadConsidering · 21/05/2021 09:25

The other question that is never asked enough:

What qualifies Hailey Davidson to be even eligible for the women’s competition in the first place, regardless of alteration of blood levels?

The answer can only ever be because Davidson feels like a woman. If that is challenged ongoing with its inevitable circular logic these males should not even get to the stage where their blood levels can be looked at.

Paralithic · 21/05/2021 09:37

How disingenuous.

Even a 9mph reduction in swing speed leaves them with a significant advantage over females:

Well the average pro golfer swing speed on the PGA Tour is around 113 MPH for drives.

On the LPGA Tour the average women’s golf swing speed is slower than on the PGA Tour. The average swing speed is 94 mph which means that on average a PGA Tour player will swing 20.2% faster than an average LPGA Tour player.

www.reachpar.com/golf-swing-speed-guide/

So, given their male upper body strength and height / wingspan, even with the “9mph decrease”, they will still have at least a 10% advantage over women players.

Paralithic · 21/05/2021 09:49

And that “losing 30 yards” equally disingenuous.

The average PGA player drives 275 yards.

The average LPGA player drives 218 yards.

golf.com/instruction/driving/this-is-how-far-pga-and-lpga-tour-players-hit-it-with-every-club/

Quincie · 21/05/2021 11:09

Global misogyny imv

AdHominemNonSequitur · 21/05/2021 11:13

Cheat.Cheat.Cheat.Cheat. How is this not obvious to everybody? How much prize money did the female who won missed out on?

CharlieParley · 21/05/2021 13:40

Exactly, Paralithic and that is what a decent journo would reference.

Easily available performance statistics. New research showing that testosterone suppression does not remove the strength advantage or reduce muscle mass. And yet no mention of that.

No prizes for guessing why no one stands up for women's sports in those articles.

GoingGently · 21/05/2021 14:05

I often wonder in awe at female athletes about how they stay at peak performance when grappling with periods and hormonal cycles. Women's bodies are never at a constant and managing that alongside performance goals is a tricky challenge I'm sure. What happens if it's the Wimbledon final and you've got crippling period pain? Or endometriosis? Even training will have its ebbs and flows throughout the month I'm sure.
I'm admittedly ignorant of the hormone replacement these male athletes undergo, but do transwomen experience the same constant hormone fluctuations as women do?

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 21/05/2021 14:16

delphinium

That poster is my argument against this.

No honour or glory in cheating.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 21/05/2021 14:51

@ANiceCupOfCoffee

Do you know, I’m starting to think the more transwomen win the better. More people might start to wake up then. The sooner to end this madness.
By that time, all of the women's records will be gone. Look at the struggles Sharron Davies has had to attempt to correct the records and the wrongs done to her and other Olympians.
andyoldlabour · 21/05/2021 16:03

EmbarrassingAdmissions

Unfortunately, there are still athletics records which stand from those days, which given the advantages in technology (tracks and equipment), nutrition and training methods, is frankly quite absurd.

OP posts:
334bu · 21/05/2021 16:09

Despite incontrovertible evidence regarding the testosterone doping of East German athletes their medals have never been taken away. Sharron Davies has never received the gold medal she was cheated out of and therefore will never receive the recognition given to Dame Kelly Holmes, Sir Mo Farrah etc. etc.

Paralithic · 21/05/2021 17:25

@CharlieParley

I’m equally Hmm at the weight loss claims:

Her doctor required that she lose weight before surgery, roughly 60 pounds, and Davidson reached that goal and then just kept going, losing 90 pounds in the last 300 days. She stayed away from any weight training in the process, doing whatever she could to trim muscle mass.

At age 19, they were 6’0” tall and weighed 175 lbs, which is a BMI of 23.7. Looking at the current photos, I find it hard to believe they have a BMI much lower than that now.

Plus if your surgeon requires you to lose weight before surgery, it’s generally to reduce additional risks from being overweight.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 21/05/2021 17:34

In another news items:

The 28-year-old now hopes to become the first transgender woman to play on the LPGA.

"As cool as it may sound to be the first person to do something, to be honest this isn't the best time for me to stick with it, move on and maybe stand out from the crowd. , because there are so many anti-transgender laws ”Davidson said.

“I have the impression that being represented in professional sport will give children a lot more hope." swing-feminin.com/en/hailey-davidson-transgender-player-coming-soon-to-lpga/

Hmm Which children? Girls? Girls who have a talent that's been identified and are hoping to develop it to win a college scholarship? Or to go on and achieve great things in sport?

Do the number of children who will gain hope from this outnumber the girls whose hopes will be crushed? Or won't seen any upside in training at a competitive level?

Paralithic · 21/05/2021 17:54

It’s a farce, isn’t it?

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 21/05/2021 17:55

It might give some children hope.

As long as they aren’t girls.

TheFutureIs · 21/05/2021 17:58

So, when East Germany and Russia were dosing their female athletes with testosterone it's was very much frowned upon....... but natal males are now allowed to compete against women. FFS!!!

Soontobe60 · 21/05/2021 18:02

@OldCrone

From the Florida Today article linked in the OP.

Davidson said she's lost 9 mph in swing speed and hits it roughly 30 yards shorter off the tee since beginning hormonal treatments. Her doctor required that she lose weight before surgery, roughly 60 pounds, and Davidson reached that goal and then just kept going, losing 90 pounds in the last 300 days. She stayed away from any weight training in the process, doing whatever she could to trim muscle mass.

"Any advantage that existed is fully gone," she insisted.

Why do these males who take drugs to reduce their performance think that this gives them the right to compete in the women's category?

No drugs can take away the fact that males have a physical advantage over females from the moment they are born. Did reducing testosterone shorten their limbs? Reduce their heart size, lung capacity, their blood’s ability to carry more haemoglobin? Did it fuck. Listen to Meghan Murphy speaking with Beth Stelzer about trans athletes participating in women’s and girls sports. podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/feminist-current/id603245791?i=1000519786035
Feelinghothothottoday · 21/05/2021 18:12

It will be Wimbledon that will peak every person interested in sport and fairness. With the prize money for women it will not be long.

SheldonesqueTheBstard · 21/05/2021 18:18

Bring the Wimbledon sunlight on I say.