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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Should MN have a Gender Identity (or similar) subsection?

502 replies

TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:12

I used to be a really active member of this board, for years. Similar with real life groups. Now there are very few discussions about most feminist issues, and tonnes and tonnes about trans/gender identity issues.

I FULLY UNDERSTAND why people are interested in talking about this, on all sides. But I miss discussions about other issues. To me having a feminist board that seems to be 90% gender chat isn't representative of the feminist issues that women face in the UK let alone in the rest of the world. The alternative would be to have a "non trans/gender identity related feminist chat board" but that feels pretty silly. Is it just me that feels this way?

OP posts:
HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 17/05/2021 21:55

I'm sorry life is tough at the moment Thermal. I hope you can understand that FWR deals with a lot of posters who start critical threads about the board and are then taken aback that women express strident opinions to the contrary.

TheThermalStair · 17/05/2021 21:55

Haha ok "normal people" was not meant in opposition to posters on here, bit of a foot (keyboard) in mouth moment there sorry. I meant normal as in, ordinary feminists who don't do as much posting/activism as some on this board but are potentially interested in doing so, as opposed to FWR regulars.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 17/05/2021 21:55

'Why are feminists who don't support categorising by gender so awful?'- sorry wasn't clear.

That might well be a thread to look forward to once all the boring old school feminists have been banished to a shed out the back.

TheThermalStair · 17/05/2021 21:58

@HecatesCatsInFancyHats

I'm sorry life is tough at the moment Thermal. I hope you can understand that FWR deals with a lot of posters who start critical threads about the board and are then taken aback that women express strident opinions to the contrary.
Yes I really do understand. I've mocked and chased off my fair share of trolls in my time too. Thank you.
OP posts:
TheThermalStair · 17/05/2021 21:59

God my brain is a mess this eve sorry. I mean "normal people" as in, not experts, not FWR regs. Rather than as in "not like you freaks".

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 17/05/2021 22:00

I've been respectful on this thread

Well, you told fernlake to fuck off when they pointed out what the effect of sectioning off discussions as you suggest would be.

And you have just implied that people posting here about the conflicts we see with other group’s rights and women’s rights are not ‘normal’.

OP do you understand that this thread has come across as policing women’s speech from the start?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 17/05/2021 22:01

Bipedal gestation unit”

That's it, really, isn't it.

NiceGerbil · 17/05/2021 22:04

Those posts do exist still although I do agree that it's a shame this board has become pretty mono topic though.

However there are reasons that's happened (put my thoughts on the reasons earlier). It's what women want to talk about. And as an open chat site, if that's what most women want to talk about on this board then that's the threads that will be there.

Transpobic posts are deleted. And given that the board is monitored and any posts reported immediately, things will be caught quickly.

How will a feminist board even work if anything remotely 'GC' is banned.

Even talking about women or girls and meaning female is seen as transphobic. So any threads doing that will be reported as on the wrong board and moved.

That IS how it is likely to play out.

TheThermalStair · 17/05/2021 22:06

Asking if there's an appetite for a subsection (I admit I had no idea this was a recurring theme) isn't policing. For the most part I've enjoyed the debate and I've appreciated people's perspectives as I said earlier in the thread.

Yes I used the old MN chestnut "ODFOD", tbh it's in such current use on here I almost think of it as its own word like YANBU and LTB. Sorry if I offended anyone with my unladylike conduct. And yeah I admit being accused of trolling, policing, and all the other stuff does wind me up a bit. Wouldn't it you?

I've come to realise there are a lot of posters on here who I probably had a lot in common with a few years ago but who now have a real level of "if you're not with us 100% you're against us" and a fortress mentality. I'd understand if I'd actually ARGUED with any of your substantive points, but just to reiterate, I was asking if there was an appetite for a subsection (hence posting here where people are, rather than in Site Stuff). Clearly some people find that question beyond the pale, and it obviously isn't going to happen anyway so I'm going to back away from the thread now, and hope to see you around FWR.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 17/05/2021 22:07

I'm not an expert Confused

I've just been on here for years.

It was eye opening. As suddenly all the things I felt and thought but had no language for etc were there. It felt like coming home.

The other point is that when FWR was created iirc it was one topic. Then activism etc were added. How many people look there? This is massively the board that people use. So the actual result would be hiding it away in practice if not in theory.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 17/05/2021 22:15

I just don't think you can ever assert that if it weren't for Mumsnet none of this would have happened and women wouldn't think in a GC way, they're just not allowed to call a spade a spade elsewhere. Tbf they're restricted to a degree here, but that's still not enough for the monitors who would prefer women to be silenced.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 17/05/2021 22:16

That's not meant as a response to anything specific - more these types of OPs.

stonecat · 17/05/2021 22:17

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Waitwhat23 · 17/05/2021 22:19

OP, I actually found your thread about alternatives to being given away rather interesting and liked to see the different things people had done. I know there are some really big, hard topics going on but I do like to see other stuff as well.

ArabellaScott · 17/05/2021 22:28

@TheThermalStair

God my brain is a mess this eve sorry. I mean "normal people" as in, not experts, not FWR regs. Rather than as in "not like you freaks".
I totally didn't take the huff about being called a freak.

Honest. It's almost nostalgic ... Smile

TheThermalStair · 17/05/2021 22:30

Thanks @Waitwhat23 Smile

OP posts:
PoleToPole · 17/05/2021 22:30

I meant normal as in, ordinary feminists who don't do as much posting/activism as some on this board but are potentially interested in doing so, as opposed to FWR regulars.

I`m pretty new to the FWR board, and I definitely want to read what is going on and what pressing issues other feminists are raising. Things have a way of sidling up to you sideways otherwise, the more sunlight the better.

As others have said, at the moment gender identify/sex is frequently discussed, but I cannot see how there could be a more important issue for feminists to discuss right now. This underpins the absolute core of womens` rights, without having that firm ground underfoot there can be no progress on any other issues. It is infuriating that it has effectively paused other efforts, but its something we must sort first.

I`m a surgeon, my speciality is repairing damage from sexual violence inflicted on women and girls by men, all of our specialist team are female as it would cause undue distress to our already severely traumatised patients if we were not.
About half of our patients are prostitutes (or rough sex/BDSM gone horribly wrong - seeing more and more of that) and the other half are rape/sexual assault victims. Usually the patients in the first category also fall into the second.
I would dearly love to be tackling the normalisation of rough sex, choking women, bdsm and many other "kinks" which are thinly veiled, (or blatant) abuse but we cannot do that until we can guarantee that we can provide a safe space to help the victims in, and we cannot do that while the gender identity et al issues are ongoing.

We need to be able to ensure that women have access to womens` services and spaces (and sports) first and foremost, and to do that we need to be able to be clear on what a woman is. Everything else is immaterial in comparison.

Sophoclesthefox · 17/05/2021 22:32

That’s such a powerful post, poletopole. Thank you.

stonecat · 17/05/2021 22:32

This reply has been deleted

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Erikrie · 17/05/2021 22:36

PoleToPole ♥️

Helleofabore · 17/05/2021 22:42

PoleToPole

Thank you. Thank you for doing what you and your team do. Flowers

ChattyLion · 17/05/2021 22:44

Thank you for your work Pole

Fernlake · 17/05/2021 22:44

@PoleToPole

I think you've mentioned your speciality before. It's women like you, on the coal face, whose voices are so crucial. And your particular area of expertise which appears, to me, to be rather niche, makes it all the more poignant.

Also. Bloody hell. What a speciality to have. I cant imagine the character required to do it. 💐

Fernlake · 17/05/2021 22:45

*strength of character is what I mean

ArabellaScott · 17/05/2021 22:45

Pole Flowers thank you for all that you do.