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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Should MN have a Gender Identity (or similar) subsection?

502 replies

TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:12

I used to be a really active member of this board, for years. Similar with real life groups. Now there are very few discussions about most feminist issues, and tonnes and tonnes about trans/gender identity issues.

I FULLY UNDERSTAND why people are interested in talking about this, on all sides. But I miss discussions about other issues. To me having a feminist board that seems to be 90% gender chat isn't representative of the feminist issues that women face in the UK let alone in the rest of the world. The alternative would be to have a "non trans/gender identity related feminist chat board" but that feels pretty silly. Is it just me that feels this way?

OP posts:
HumunaHey · 16/05/2021 14:15

I see where you're coming from. Talk about gender identity and what it means for women is important, but this board only ever seems filled with obsessive posts about it. Some are really nit picking too. It's annoying.

TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:19

Thanks @HumunaHey - tbh it puts me off even reading the threads because I open it thinking it sounds like an interesting topic but it's the same old stuff again.

I remember a woman from MN was key to the campaign to get mother's names on marriage certificates (which has now happened),
we were organising activism against ads and film that glorified sexual abuse, we were supporting other women having trouble with discrimination at work. It was awesome.

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Babdoc · 16/05/2021 14:21

You sound rather like a deckhand on the Titanic, complaining that we’re all obsessed with the wretched iceberg, and please can we discuss moving the deckchairs instead!

username985 · 16/05/2021 14:23

Absolutely, I find all the trans-obsessive threads so repetitive. They crowd out so many other important issues too like the ones you mention. I think a separate section is a great idea.

Helleofabore · 16/05/2021 14:23

So start the threads you are interested in. That is the easiest fix. Start those threads and people will join in.

I am not sure what you would hope to gain by suggesting that any issue that discusses the current need to clarify, strengthen and fight for the rights of females where there is a conflict with other groups rights be subsectioned. Because most topics are impacted by these conflicts.

In saying that, there are quite a number of threads active where the clashes don’t apply and are not discussed on this board right now. Have you read them and contributed?

TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:24

Haha thanks @Babdoc I expected posters to say this TBH (have been told the same by friends in real life) but while I understand the concerns it's hardly the ONLY issue going on for women and girls is it? So more like if the Titanic was hitting several smaller icebergs and everyone was just pointing at one?

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Notagain20 · 16/05/2021 14:25

I agree that you surely just need to start threads on the issues you're interested in discussing, and people will join you if they're also interested?

GCAcademic · 16/05/2021 14:27

@TheThermalStair

Haha thanks *@Babdoc* I expected posters to say this TBH (have been told the same by friends in real life) but while I understand the concerns it's hardly the ONLY issue going on for women and girls is it? So more like if the Titanic was hitting several smaller icebergs and everyone was just pointing at one?
Well start the threads you want to see, then, rather than complaining that other people aren't starting them.
TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:28

Thanks @Helleofabore I've decided to come back to the board and get involved rather than ignoring it, hence the suggestion. Looking through the other threads now.

Cheers @username985

OP posts:
TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:29

"Start the threads you want to see" is fine and I will do, but it's not going to change much if the overall pattern is 90% one topic. Partly because it's a drop in the ocean, partly because I'm sure loads of others like me who care about feminism but have been put off this section aren't looking any more.

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CardinalLolzy · 16/05/2021 14:30

I'd be interested in reading other subjects in FWR - and do! please do feel free to start them. Just on the first page of FWR there are several important threads including the grooming gangs.

Lots of issues are really hard to talk about if you can't talk about women who are not trans in a straightforward way. Threads on FGM get derailed when people object to talking about women, etc.

Trans topics are really in the public eye right now all over the place so discussion on them will also be increasing. But important legal cases are being brought that will affect ALL women and this is where my main interest lies - stuff that is very much happening now and we can't drop the ball.

CardinalLolzy · 16/05/2021 14:32

(In case my pp wasn't clear, I don't think there should be a separate section. We've been told that gender must be prioritised over sex - in law, in policy etc - which is the basis on which we are oppressed - so trying to unpick this is fairly inherent in a lot of feminist topics).

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/05/2021 14:36

"Start the threads you want to see" is fine and I will do, but it's not going to change much if the overall pattern is 90% one topic.

It reflects what regular and semi regular FWR posters want to discuss. Other things do get discussed, and anyone is free to start threads. But you can't expect to unilaterally change the focus of the feminist board.

SunnydaleClassProtector99 · 16/05/2021 14:43

I wouldn't have ventured into a gender identity board and would thus not be aware of the issues otherwise, so no, I don't think it should be separated.

If you are interested op I started a thread about women's protesting in China. Obviously women's role both in modern and historic China is a huge conversation so you are more than welcome to comment on it.

ArabellaScott · 16/05/2021 14:43

So, how many of these other issues have you started threads on, yourselves, those who don't like the posts on FWR?

Have at it!

TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:43

"you can't expect to unilaterally change the focus of the feminist board"

Well I do realise that as I am just one person. I do wonder if the regular posters from 5 or 10 years ago are still here now and have all decided that GC stuff is the number one focus, or if the GC stuff has brought in a different lot of people and some of the old feminist crowd (or newcomers who would be interested in other feminist stuff) have just melted away.

It is called "feminism chat", but is actually "gender critical chat" if you glance down the list of threads.

In my RL feminist group probably only about one person in five or so was very interested in GC issues, so I'm intrigued about why it's different on here.

OP posts:
Lemmen · 16/05/2021 14:44

Definitely start the conversations you want. There's nothing stopping you from trying to run a long running "Current feminism issues beyond gender identity" sort of thread as you mentioned in your OP.

You could also just start feminist themed chats in Chat or AIBU. (I mean, maybe not "who's explored this long academic doctrine then", but general discussion on things that affect mums and women would probably be welcomed all over the place?)

Floisme · 16/05/2021 14:45

I can and do discuss other feminist topics pretty much anywhere but this is about the only public forum where we can talk about this issue. This is why it predominates. It can get repetitive - I can see that and sometimes I come on here and I want to scream but this is where we are. And I can't get my head round the idea that changing the legal status of women and girls is somehow a separate issue that can be sidelined. Not when it underpins everything else.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/05/2021 14:45

I do wonder if the regular posters from 5 or 10 years ago are still here now

Quite a few of them are, yes.

TheThermalStair · 16/05/2021 14:45

Thanks @SunnydaleClassProtector99 I'll look for it now.

I used to start threads regularly but lost the habit of it as this became mostly a one-topic board. Really miss it which is why I'm back!

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CuriousaboutSamphire · 16/05/2021 14:46

I can't help myself but those threads aren't about trans issues, they are about women's issues, women's rights. Self ID and trans lobbying is changing so much, societal norms, language, freedom of speech, protected characteristics, a myriad of laws etc etc.

Almost any feminist issue gets mired by the push for 'inclusivity'. It feels ridiculous to type it but how can you protect women's rights if society and the law can't agree on what a woman actually is? It is that fundamental. And it sounds bloody ridiculous.

But here we are, living in a world where 'women' includes male bodied people and if you want to say and mean actual women you can be legally castigated, may lose your job. When female services use language that obfuscates the service they are offering because trans people and non binary people feel left out, ignored, triggered etc if you say 'women' instead of 'people with a cervix' (note male equivalent services simply say men and male).

I would be ecstatic if we never had another thread that discussed the competing rights of women and trans people. I hate the mangled language, the defensiveness and double think the whole topic forces upon us.

But whilst women are being threatened, banned from social media, threatened with physical violence, reported to police and employers, de-platformed, physically attacked, denied single sex services, forced to compete against male bodied people in sport and, basically, told to accept that some women have male bodies but are as female as I am, I fear FWR will continue to discuss the issue.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/05/2021 14:46

It is called "feminism chat", but is actually "gender critical chat" if you glance down the list of threads.

Because these issues are fundamental to the feminist women here.

Lemmen · 16/05/2021 14:46

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I do wonder if the regular posters from 5 or 10 years ago are still here now

Quite a few of them are, yes.

I'm one of them but I name change frequently and occasionally deregister for good measure. Doxxing and data security are real problems.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 16/05/2021 14:47

I think I joined in 2013 or 2014. Have name changed properly once.