Polling in connection with the Labour Party and public attitudes

[Zinco]

Quoting from:

Poll proves wokery lost Labour 'red wall' seats: Sir Keir Starmer's Party is overwhelmingly associated with politically correct issues that are not backed by public

www.dailymail.co.uk/textbased/news/text-9583001/Sir-Keir-Starmers-Labour-Party-touch-public-opinion-poll-finds.html

"...Labour is also perceived to support the issue of men being allowed to redefine themselves as women and access female-only facilities, with 43 per cent associating the party with support for it and just nine per cent regarding it as a Tory issue.

Only 19 per cent of people support the measure, while 48 per cent oppose it.

Likewise, 31 per cent think Labour would support the idea of breastfeeding being renamed 'chestfeeding', but only five per cent of voters back it; and 36 per cent think Labour would support children being given puberty blockers as part of hormone therapy to change gender, with 61 per cent of people opposing it...."

*flaws

I think it is sadly true that Labour is influenced now by an extreme minority - and Keir Starmer knows it.

All his tactics with them have failed.

The High Trans is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with. It doesn't feel pity of remorse or fear and it absolutely will not stop. Ever.

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

I told my labour candidate on the doorstep that I had been a labour supporter and member for 15 years, but that the labelling of normal women's concerns such as wanting to keep single sex spaces in prisons as "bigotry" ... has meant that they have lost my vote.

Same here, and we can’t be the only ones. They can’t pretend this isn’t a genuine concern.

Agree - I have spoilt my ballot papers in two elections now and I have always voted Labour. And I have made very clear on my ballots why I am spoiling. I know there are some that say it doesn't matter - but I have worked on counts and I know that, certainly in my constituency, every paper that is spoilt is pored over by all the agents/candidates to see if they can 'claim' it as theirs by showing that there may have been intent to vote a certain way. And even though I live in a safe Labour I will still spoil because I want Labour to see that their majority cannot be taken for granted.

@JamieLeeCurtains

2 - many people are unclear about the issue and the deliberately unclear language - especially if they aren’t in the self selecting Twitter bubble. Eg; is a ‘transwoman’ a woman who wants to be a man or a man who wants to be a woman? It could be either. Does it only include those who’ve had surgery? Does it include tranvestites? Most people don’t yet know about ‘self-I’d’.

Labour's problems include giving us its interpretation of 'trans' without having a definition of the word, so the concept has pretty much become High Trans or Existential Trans holding an illogical place in Labour's meaningless political universe.

If you actually set up a working group to invent something to really turn off voters, I think that group would be hard pressed to surpass this.

This is very true. I really believe that for most people, their idea of a transwoman is Hayley Cropper. I think corrie has done a lot of damage!!!

@crackofdoom

In all my time canvassing for Labour, this issue has never been raised on the doorstep. Perhaps it would be now, if the Mail is constantly banging on about it? Which is precisely why they’re doing it, I suppose- they see a weak point and they’re trying to cause dissent. Well done for falling for it though

I'm a recent ex Labour member. Currently unable to vote for Labour. I brought it up when phoned to ask for help getting Sadiq re elected. But on my doorstep or in the street, I wouldn't have the guts, sorry. I have too many personal and professional reasons that I oppose self ID. I fear being emotional in front of a stranger and having my feelings dismissed. For want of a better term, it's triggering. My interactions online have shown me time and time again that supporters of self ID can behave like cruel witch hunters if you let slip that you don't believe a gender identity can change a human's sex category or potential pattern of criminality.

I want a socialist government. I don't believe Conservatives are necessarily bastards but I disagree with their assessment of human nature that underpins the vast majority of their policies. I bet they're laughing at what the gender issue has done to Labour.

And yeah the Mail is 90% shit. But when the Guardian writes articles crying about a sex offender denied hair straighteners in jail without mentioning their teenage victim; uncritical articles about homophobic American parents setting their gender non-conforming children on a path to medicalisation; and describes asking male athletes to compete with other male athletes as a human rights issue, conveniently ignoring the presumably lesser humans (female) who then can't compete at all, well I don't think "it was in the Daily Mail" is quite the killer put down it once was.

@crackofdoom

In all my time canvassing for Labour, this issue has never been raised on the doorstep. Perhaps it would be now, if the Mail is constantly banging on about it? Which is precisely why they’re doing it, I suppose- they see a weak point and they’re trying to cause dissent. Well done for falling for it though

Hmm, I live in a safe Labour seat and I have never, ever been canvassed by any party. Never. But if I was, I'm not sure I would be brave enough to raise my concerns because of the backlash and them knowing my name and where I live. I also work for my local authority. So, have a good think about why some women have not raised this on the doorstep. A lot don't know about what is happening because No Debate remember. A lot are scared to because of the potential repercussions - remember the 'throw them out pledge' signed by the leader candidates. Remember how Rosie Duffield has been treated? We see through your 'look the other way, don't fall for it' tactics.

@HappydaysArehere

Have to add anyone who takes notice of the Daily Mail deserves what they get and that is bilge.

Did you think the same when the mail printed this in the front page?

I really believe that for most people, their idea of a transwoman is Hayley Cropper. I think corrie has done a lot of damage!!!

A 'poster woman' for TRA organisations such as Press For Change and Trans Media Watch was/is Julie Hesmondhalgh, the biological woman acting the part of a transitioning transsexual Harold/Hayley Cropper.

Hesmondhalgh was apparently stung, as only a luvvie can be stung, by criticism of her playing the role of a transitioning male, and so threw herself into campaigning and patronage for trans-activist groups.

It has been said that the construction of nice Hayley Cropper is responsible in large part for the tabling of the GRA in 2004 and its sympathetic reception from unquestioning MPs. It became the Give Hayley And Roy A Break Act 2004.

Thats a shame - some of the dramas she has acted in have been very good - I remember her doing a sensitive portrayal of a woman who had been raped in the 3rd Broadchurch series.

Excellent point @PronounssheRa

@mollythemeerkat

Thats a shame - some of the dramas she has acted in have been very good - I remember her doing a sensitive portrayal of a woman who had been raped in the 3rd Broadchurch series.

I know. And she had maternity leave from Corrie while playing Hayley Cropper.

I think she was an early capture. And her career has been just fine; unlike Maya's.

I feel sad about it tbh.

Here's an image of the poll

Bet if they had added "TWs taking part in womens sports, there would have been nearly 100 percent opposed.

Wow. James O'Brien, despite trying to stage the conversation as breaking gender roles, seems to think that if males say they are girls (maybe because they like pink) it becomes a fact. So stereotypes make you a boy or girl. Sounds very regressive and rigid to me.

Guess there is a new trendy cause. Happily men. He should have Rachel Dolezal on and tell people who say she is not black just because she says so (and is a very impressive like Fox Fowl/Owl) that they have no right to call it out.

I thought it was interesting how he threw in Islamic segregation as a slight. In another time, he would have gone on about bigotry against muslims and called people who adopted that dismissive tone as racists. New trendy right think. Kelly was right. Social contagion for non critical thinkers.

Have to add anyone who takes notice of the Daily Mail deserves what they get and that is bilge

It was actually what the members of the public selected by an independent polling company thought.

I'm a recent ex Labour member. Currently unable to vote for Labour

I voted Labour in every election from 1979 onwards. I stopped voting Labour when Corbyn became leader and it was taken over by Militant Tendency mark Ii.

I'm always a bit surprised that this one issue - " being ender critical"- is the one thing which seems to make you assess what is wrong with the Labour Party and the SNP.

Does it matter what the issue is that makes people rethink 'loyalty' voting? Surely any factor that causes people to question identity politics is good and ensures we are voting for actual policies not ideology?
I voted Corbyn before I was aware of this whole can of worms. I read the policies and thought they were good. The outcry about money allocation at the time seems to have been forgotten as money has been a never-ending stream in the pandemic. I've no doubt that this will be passed onto the public though.
I personally think it's good if something causes you to reassess. I started to do this when I was reading David Lammy's book and he, surprisingly, I thought, was concerned about tribal politics and Labour's tendancy to paint the working class as racist without looking at the reasons behind it. He used the example of his hometown and it basically predicted the Harrogate situation.
After a lifetime of voting idealistically I am starting to see nuance. I think the more voters who treat voting as a means to shape policy and build on society the better. Too many people treat voting like a football match. It's not about the 'winning' it's about the direction that government takes us as a community.

I felt nervous about bringing it up to be honest, even though I had real life examples of women I know who have required single sex spaces after experiencing sexual assault

That's not the only issue, of course...you could mention children, trans narratives and puberty blockers; what children are being taught in school; young girls transitioning; the trans umbrella, male bodies people in women's sports, and so on.......

And yet there twitter outrage when a non trans person is put forward to play a transperson on screen now. Go Figure.

I'm always a bit surprised that this one issue - " being ender critical"- is the one thing which seems to make you assess what is wrong with the Labour Party and the SNP.

I think it is because a lot of people really hesitate when they first see what gender ideology demands, with what seem like common sense concerns, and then are actually shocked when anyone who questions it is called a bigot and the strength of the reaction. So they dig a bit and find the facts they thought they had are often outright fibs.

It's more extreme than a lot of other issues. And there is also the basic issue itself and on top of it the intellectual freedom stuff. SO a double whammy.

But I also see people start to question due to the continued depiction of Leave voters as thick, and things like grooming gangs stuff, and more lately even some statue toppling activities. I think maybe it's easier to most of those things as the actions of people who just happen to be assholes, or a specific fuck up. Whereas it becomes clear quickly with gender ideology that there is something bigger going on.

In all my time canvassing for Labour, this issue has never been raised on the doorstep. Perhaps it would be now, if the Mail is constantly banging on about it? Which is precisely why they’re doing it, I suppose- they see a weak point and they’re trying to cause dissent. Well done for falling for it though hmm

I raised it in 2019 too. That's a fair few of us just on this thread. And as others have said, it's come to people's attention a lot more over the last 12 months.

I've experienced the same 'shifts' that many posters mention regarding The Daily Mail/The Guardian too. I agree with the poster who said this:
The trap of: "they are baddies and so everything they say is wrong" is one of the cognitive distortions that leads people to being shocked when election results come in and the results are not what they expected. Not saying "everything they say is right" either.

I also think the reason that this is the issue people are waking up to, is that the gender ideology that is being pushed at the moment is so diametrically opposed to a lot of things that previously led me to be considered to be "woke" or left wing. For instance, being a feminist(!!!), raising my kids in a way that combats sexist stereotypes, fighting and recognising VAWG and rape culture, supporting women's rights to access sport or academics or choose medical practitioners on the basis of freedom of religion and personal boundaries, or even body positivity and acceptance of all people and bodies around us without question. All of those values have led me to think that a movement telling children they have to surgically and/or medically alter their bodies if they don't fit sexist stereotypes is just wrong. How is it that the stereotypes are now accepted to be right and a child's body is wrong and needs to be altered to fit on their say-so??

I raise money for girls to access school in Tanzania - you need more money for a girl's bursary than a boy as their unpaid labour is lost at home and families are unwilling to let them attend much beyond primary. Now to be told by the political party I voted for that the barriers to those girls face are in fact something they could identify out of? Pull the other one!

PS I raised it to the Lib Dem's in Feb 2019 around Lynne Featherstone's comments at the time about gender critical feminists not being welcome in the party. I didn't even ask to leave, just asked if this was official party policy. My only response was an email back "we're sorry to see you go..." and informing me my membership and direct debit were cancelled. I had only joined 6 months before on the back of being a passionate Remainer and feeling like they were the only party committed to Remain!

I raised it also with Green Party canvasser in 2019. He was wearing a 'Trans Rights' badge and when I asked him what rights he was campaigning for specifically, he said it was 'a symbol'. He had also never heard of the cotton ceiling. I told him to google it come back for a chat. He didn't.

I'm always a bit surprised that this one issue - " being ender critical"- is the one thing which seems to make you assess what is wrong with the Labour Party and the SNP.

Well, I agree that this isn't the only issue, but it is a key issue.

If a politician or political party doesn't see sex, they don't see sexism, and they can't support safeguarding and the needs of women and girls in health and education.