Polling in connection with the Labour Party and public attitudes

[Zinco]

Quoting from:

Poll proves wokery lost Labour 'red wall' seats: Sir Keir Starmer's Party is overwhelmingly associated with politically correct issues that are not backed by public

www.dailymail.co.uk/textbased/news/text-9583001/Sir-Keir-Starmers-Labour-Party-touch-public-opinion-poll-finds.html

"...Labour is also perceived to support the issue of men being allowed to redefine themselves as women and access female-only facilities, with 43 per cent associating the party with support for it and just nine per cent regarding it as a Tory issue.

Only 19 per cent of people support the measure, while 48 per cent oppose it.

Likewise, 31 per cent think Labour would support the idea of breastfeeding being renamed 'chestfeeding', but only five per cent of voters back it; and 36 per cent think Labour would support children being given puberty blockers as part of hormone therapy to change gender, with 61 per cent of people opposing it...."

@pheebumbalatti

Typical right wing Daily Mail bile and nonsense.

Sorry, how did Labour do in the recent elections again...?

In all my time canvassing for Labour, this issue has never been raised on the doorstep.

Genuine question, what are the issues that are coming up on the doorstep? In your opinion as a canvasser, why are Labour doing so badly at the moment? I sometimes feel like I am in a bit of a bubble with this particular issue and Labour, and am genuinely interested in other reasons why Labour is not doing well.

I raised it on the doorstep for the first time this time.

I’d have raised it sooner but it’s the first time I’ve ever been door knocked.

@pheebumbalatti

Typical right wing Daily Mail bile and nonsense.

Oh dear, do you not understand the idea of don't shoot the messenger?

The poll was commissioned by The Campaign for Common Sense. Here it is from the horse's mouth.

mobile.twitter.com/CommSenseUK/status/1393859561619066880

I saw this on twitter. I was shocked I tells ya...

In all my time canvassing for Labour, this issue has never been raised on the doorstep.

Note that the polling wasn't just about single sex spaces and puberty blockers, but about things like law and order policy.

No one has ever mentioned the issue of crime/punishment to you on the doorstep?

Even if perhaps they haven't, I don't think it follows that these kinds of issues aren't important to voters.

I think the Labour Party is perceived as elitist and having different values to the voters, (or many of them), and looking down on them as a result.

Now sure, there is room for reasonable disagreement about how important this all is to their chances of getting elected. (But some people seem to think it shouldn't even be mentioned because the polling was reported by the Daily Mail; that automatically makes it wrong.)

There are certainly other reasons why people might not vote Labour, like they aren't seen as economically competent.

@crackofdoom

In all my time canvassing for Labour, this issue has never been raised on the doorstep. Perhaps it would be now, if the Mail is constantly banging on about it? Which is precisely why they’re doing it, I suppose- they see a weak point and they’re trying to cause dissent. Well done for falling for it though

I raised it with my local Labour candidate 'on the doorstep' in April by emailing her in response to her email to me asking if I would support her as we 'needed more women on the council'. She didn't even bother to reply.

I previously raised it with another Labour candidate in 2019.

This year, in my ward, Labour lost by a handful of votes. My entire massive extended family and lots of friends refused to vote Labour. Our usual online ringing endorsements for the Labour candidate were entirely absent.

The Council here btw is now in a state of NoC. So yes it DOES matter and yes it DOES have real life consequences for Labour.

And do you know what? It's bloody disappointing. This is my Party, stomping on me, with its fingers in its ears. It's horrible.

@toffeebutterpopcorn

I saw this on twitter. I was shocked I tells ya...

Yes, it's up there with- rain - it's wet and the usual tendencies of Popes and woodland dwelling bears.

I felt nervous about bringing it up to be honest, even though I had real life examples of women I know who have required single sex spaces after experiencing sexual assault

I have always found the far lefties are the worst for taking extreme stances against - well pretty much anything.

Open a bag of crisps and they will turn up with their placards, protesting away. It’s the whole ‘sow dissent and social disharmony’ thing isn’t it.

Crack - loads of reasons that no one has mentioned it;
1 - it’s only just coming to public attention.
2 - many people are unclear about the issue and the deliberately unclear language - especially if they aren’t in the self selecting Twitter bubble. Eg; is a ‘transwoman’ a woman who wants to be a man or a man who wants to be a woman? It could be either. Does it only include those who’ve had surgery? Does it include tranvestites? Most people don’t yet know about ‘self-I’d’.
2 - fear of being branded a bigot.
3 - people may have other issues they want to raise first - that doesn’t mean that they are only interested in the thing they mention.
4 - many people just role their eyes at the stupidity of hearing people utter inane phrases like TWAW. They won’t tell you that but it adds to the general perception of Labour candidates being out of touch, London centric and generally unfit for serious office.

I agree so much on the daily mail posts. I always read the DM as a way to see what the right wing press are saying about a story, and most importantly, the comments. I used to read the Guardian too but they rarely allow comments now and often twist the story to their agenda more than the DM. I don’t agree with a lot of DM opinion but it’s good to understand why people feel that way. I’d suggest Kier Starmer does the same and really focuses on what DM commenters are saying. Like it not they are the majority opinion on a lot of topics.

Starmer needs to address the public’s concerns without dismissing them as bigots. Worrying about immigration isn’t racist for example, we see how stretched public services are so need this worry to be acknowledged and balanced solutions offered. Same with Brexit, the EU isn’t perfect and it’s not necessarily bad to leave (I voted remain). Brexiteers aren’t all stupid racists.

James O Brien typifies this problem. Middle class wanker. He’s completely out of touch with the realities of normal people. He not impacted by social policy, immigration, state education, prison, even health care as he can go private.

And it's almost comical reading here by a pp that I have "fallen for" daily mail bait. I only started not to trust the guardian after it started producing articles referring to females as "non-transwomen" and kicked out Susan More and only started reading the mail when it felt like they seemed to be reporting on these issues with more balance.

If the papers you normally listen to start saying that you are "wrong and bad" and the papers you used to ignore start actually talking about the issues that you care about... Guess what... You'll start reading those papers. And eventually you won't feel the need to apologise for it either.

2 - many people are unclear about the issue and the deliberately unclear language - especially if they aren’t in the self selecting Twitter bubble. Eg; is a ‘transwoman’ a woman who wants to be a man or a man who wants to be a woman? It could be either. Does it only include those who’ve had surgery? Does it include tranvestites? Most people don’t yet know about ‘self-I’d’.

Labour's problems include giving us its interpretation of 'trans' without having a definition of the word, so the concept has pretty much become High Trans or Existential Trans holding an illogical place in Labour's meaningless political universe.

If you actually set up a working group to invent something to really turn off voters, I think that group would be hard pressed to surpass this.

Mum used to get the Mail for coupons for dvds and books when ds was little and I used the take the piss.

However, amongst the ‘vitamin B causes cancer’ ‘vitamin B helps you live longer’ and ‘celeb wear shoes’ puffery, they have consistently shone a light on this absolute balloonwery. I really can’t fault them for doing this.

I used to be a guardian reader, but I judge those who read this now far more than I ever judged the Mail or the sun readers.

"I have always found the far lefties are the worst for taking extreme stances... Open a bag of crisps and they will turn up with their placards, protesting away. It’s the whole ‘sow dissent and social disharmony’ thing isn’t it."

Ryan Long -- Professional Protestor

I`m not sure who people think "far lefties" are any more. As a long term activist on the left and someone who loathes the Tory Party, I struggle with some of the recent drift towards identity politics and in particular, the gender stuff. Lots of youngsters are embracing identity politics for (IMO) valid reasons such as ideallism and a desire for social justice, but maybe dont get it about what is happening to women. But Labour will struggle if it doesnt embrace its young, educated, city base, because thats where it won the seats it managed to retain. It does need to realise that its alienating older feminists and potentially, a large number of voters who think this gender stuff is seriously wierd or understand its unfairness to women.

Not white who the far lefties are any more. When I was a student it was the Trotskyite (or trotters as we used to call them at uni). Or the ‘Socialist Workers wankers’ (these feckers really do turn up to protest at everything an anything).

Not white! Not sure... must wear my glasses when I type...

Agreed about the SWP @toffeebutterpopcorn - they were always really annoying!

Labour have allowed an authoritarian group to get hold of the party. Instead of the broad church it should be only one view is allowed. When momentum and their cronies started shouting about trans rights someone should have said we need to balance those rights with the rights of others who are impacted
Instead they have been pandered to so much that they are the only voice left. The SNP have done the same. Now, having lost women and the working class they are too scared to lose this very vocal group too. See Nicola Sturgeon and her embarrassing video begging trans people not to leave the party. And that was in response to allowing women who have been raped to request a female HCP
WTF is wrong with these people 😒
They have found out too late that the more you pander the more they want

I despair for the Labour Party when posters pop in, not to listen but to tell us off for talking about something in the Daily Mail.

Right now I think I've probably got more chance of living to see my team win the Champions League than I have of seeing Labour win another election.

In all my time canvassing for Labour, this issue has never been raised on the doorstep

I brought it up very politely in 2019. Haven't been canvassed by Labour since, even when I can see them knocking on other doors in the street.

[quote Justhadathought]The thing is that many in the Labour Party think that they are morally superior to people with different ideas; they will look at these findings and just think that people need ‘educating’

Yes, there is a failure to recognise that when they dismiss people/their constituents on issues important to them, they tend to lose them altogether. Which is what has happened over the trans issue. People have now started to see how the left tends to operate on a a range of issues, as a result of feeling alienated by the Labour party.

Tony Blair was correct in his assessment.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/05/tony-blair-without-total-change-labour-will-die[/quote]
I don't know how many people I have heard say that they started off thinking this was a single issue they happened to disagree on, but the response they received just opened their eyes to a lot of questionable framing and thinking on a much wider range of issues.

It ends up being kind of like a little bruise on an apple, and when you try and cut it out you find much of the inside is rotten too.

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

Labour have allowed an authoritarian group to get hold of the party. Instead of the broad church it should be only one view is allowed. When momentum and their cronies started shouting about trans rights someone should have said we need to balance those rights with the rights of others who are impacted Instead they have been pandered to so much that they are the only voice left. The SNP have done the same. Now, having lost women and the working class they are too scared to lose this very vocal group too. See Nicola Sturgeon and her embarrassing video begging trans people not to leave the party. And that was in response to allowing women who have been raped to request a female HCP WTF is wrong with these people 😒 They have found out too late that the more you pander the more they want

Do you know what, I am sorry about the momentum thing as I was a labour party member who voted for Corbyn as leader. I genuinely believed that it would just be for better public services and help for the marginalised. I had no idea about trans stuff impacting upon women, like most people I pictured small post-op transwomen. I thought that anything that was a criticism of Jeremy Corbyn was right wing propaganda. I was so angry about austerity that I didn't really want to think about the floors in my own party.