British Kickboxing has fallen

[andyoldlabour]

Well, it looks as though BKC (British Kickboxing Council) are to allow trans athletes to compete in their chosen category. There is thankfully a lot of kickback against this on their twitter feed.

twitter.com/thebkc/status/1377166255828787216

Then where are the 'not all men' while this is going on? Why aren't they out there telling these crazies where they can put it?

IKR?! 🤔

I think the only answer that will avoid brain injuries and deaths is for the women to refuse every match with a trans fighter and leave them to kick the wotsit out of each other. That seems fair.

Yes, where are the men, kickboxers and others?

I think the only answer that will avoid brain injuries and deaths is for the women to refuse every match with a trans fighter and leave them to kick the wotsit out of each other. That seems fair.

As long as the woman is aware. Fallon fox didn't disclose their trans status when injuring a woman so badly that it ended her career.

God I didn’t know Fallon Fox didn’t tell their opponent 😱 That is vile abuse.

Erikrie, does that mean the woman whose skull was fractured would only have realised her opponent had gone through a male puberty and physical maturity when they met in the ring and she saw the male frame, musculature and bone length?!

I guess all any woman could do is concede without fighting. Perhaps that is the best response. Women remain unharmed, transwomen can fight each other and the women could set up their own league and award their own trophies, etc.

When the current crazy phase is over - hopefully without any deaths or life-changing injuries - things can go back to normal.

If phobia just meant fear, not an irrational fear, I would say wise women kickboxers ought to be transphobic, but terrified would be the more accurate term.

I would never want to see anyone excluded from the sport they love, but weight, age and sex classes are there for good reasons. Nobody would prevent transwomen fighting others who, like them, went through a male puberty with all its physical benefits.

There is no requirement for women to offer themselves up as lambs to the slaughter.

Bit of clarification here. Tamikka Brents knew, because FF confirmed their natal sex on March 5, 2013.

However, the three women FF fought and won against before that didn't know.

Their names are Rickie Gomes (fight date June 10 2011), Elisha Helsper (fight date May 17, 2012), Ericka Newsome (fight date March 2, 2013).

Funnily enough I saw a clip of women’s MMA fighting yesterday. Bloody hell it was brutal. I can only imagine it would be an absolute bloodbath of one had an advantage over the other.

Surely, organisations maiking batshit decisions like this will (or fucking should!) have huge issues sorting insurance?

The lack of craps given when it comes to womens safety/fairness over male feelings is just depressing as fuck.

How can this be? The KBC mention they've surveyed their membership? They also have bleated to Penis News about suffering a pile on...

bleating to penis news??

and with that the last tiny shred of their credibility fell sadly into the gutter.....

Looking at their Twitter feed just now is quite heartening. What did they really think the response was going to be? Maybe none of these organisations bother to think very deeply about anything.
I just hope for one seminal moment, which results in this whole thing blowing up.

The KBC mention they've surveyed their membership?

Asking some questions counts as 'surveying'...listening to the answers? Not guaranteed in this case.

I emailed them several times. Not a dicky bird.

This is so sad.
When I used to kick box, their was no way I could take on a guy.
I got hit once by accident and went flying.. Another sport women will have to leave. I just don’t have words anymore

Are there NO kickboxing trainers who are going to raise objections to this? They must understand the huge risks involved.

The trouble is that anyone earning their living and building their career inside an organisation is going to risk everything if they speak out.

You can be sure after the first death or crippling of a woman beaten (in both senses of the word) by a male-bodied opponent, all those trainers will speak out and say they never approved. But if course it will be too late.

I was interested to read Fallon Fox scoffing at the notion that a woman's skull had been broken in a fight with Fallon because a broken skull means it's been split in two and it was actually only her orbital bone.

Well that's OK then!

Wait - that's the eye socket bone, isn't it? Which is - hmm - the skull?

Q: When is a skull fracture not a skull fracture?
A: When it's inflicted on a woman kickboxer by a transwoman kickboxer.

The people responsible for safety in clubs must surely fear legal action in the event of injury (or worse). Even setting aside their personal views on safety risks, the insurance, legal and financial risks with mixed sex kick boxing must be huge.

Eg see insurers for clubs, trainers, events, competitions complying with trans lobbying over the insurers’ risk analysis and financial interests!

Not.

@HecatesCatsInFancyHats

I'd be interested to know what their "Trans inclusion in Kickboxing project" involves if they're not looking at allowing trans women to compete as the sex they identify with? Now is definitely the time to be pointing out how dangerous that would be.

In a sane world, such projects would revolve around getting men to accept transwomen without insults and such. Make trans fighters feel more comfortable when fighting their own sex. And fuck off with the silly 'lower testosterone for a period of time, that will change EVERYTHING!!!!' nonsense.

Its a bit more difficult for transmen. Where the obvious answer seems to be 'transwomen might be at a bit of a disadvantage to men, but they have an advantage over women, they are male, fight the males' basically. Transmen who are medicated are..harder as it seems wrong to suggest they fight men, as I know how dangerous it is for men to fight women, but its also unfair if they fight women as they are taking drugs to boost performance. But, thats a problem that does not need to be solved by me tbh. Transmen who change nothing bar clothing and hairstyle or whatever obviously should be with the women (and yes, women encouraged to 'be nice' to said transmen, if its needed, which I doubt it would be needed as with the males somehow ) but doping would disqualify you obviously. Beyond that, something can be thought up I am sure.

Maybe it's the same as with girl guides.

They changed their policy without really telling anyone.

The individual groups have not been explicitly told or given guidance afaik.

Guide leaders in general are women who really care about girls and volunteer their time and energy, including loads of paperwork, chasing payments, responding to random questions about all sorts from parents in their spare time etc.

They don't know about this. I imagine most would be ???!!! It's not what they signed up to. Which was a well established charity with an exemption around being female only due to girls particular challenges in society.

If the kickboxing people are like when my kids did judo. It's similar to guides. Local volunteers who give their time etc.

The tweet doesn't say that they will go self ID. I looked at their policies couldn't find anything.

They could change the policy quietly get a yay from Twitter. And just keep quiet about it in the hope that it won't come up in real life iyswim.

Fyi I had a look at swim England again. They published a self id policy ages ago like 2019 or something. Outcry (mixed changing in communal rooms aged 3- 70).

The page for the policy is still 'under review' now. They've backed away from the whole thing.

Head IsFucked.

At amateur level if it's self ID then people go in the group they choose.

If transwomen can fight in the female category no questions asked then so can transmen.

A transman even on hormones is very unlikely to be a strong as a transwoman with or without any treatment.

And if they choose to fight men the risk is the same as allowing self ID on fighting the women.

Or girls/ boys obv same rules would apply.

Whenever I see 'surveying membership' or talk about 'the majority of people in a consultation' I wonder if they would get on a plane where 500 passengers have said 'it looks like a nice shiny new plane' but the pilot has pointed out a fatal flaw.

I don’t think DSs dojo is a member - we didn’t see anything.

toffee, if you can, it's worth broaching the subject and registering your opposition to his club following the example of British Kickboxing.

This might be useful. phys.org/news/2020-02-males-powerful.html#lightbox

Fyi I had a look at swim England again. They published a self id policy ages ago like 2019 or something. Outcry (mixed changing in communal rooms aged 3- 70)

That's a really important point NiceGerbil. When swimming organisations end up in a place where they try to insist that girls and women must be undressed and naked in front random men who self identify as women, they are confronted with the grim reality that many organisations can hand wave away. The insistence that women and girls have no right to boundaries, privacy, dignity or safety is a position that only certain types of groups wish to openly advocate for.