Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

[Biscuitsanddoombar]

Not a surprise and hopefully it’ll open some eyes about the utter ridiculousness of allowing someone who is male to compete against women in weightlifting

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/05/trans-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-set-to-make-history-at-tokyo-olympics

Let’s all take a moment to appreciate the athleticism, sacrifice and hard work of Tracey Lambrechs (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Lambrechs) and Feagaiga Stowers (samoaglobalnews.com/golden-girl-feagaiga-stowers-bears-the-flag-for-samoa-2019/) who respectively have lost a place on the NZ team, and a Pacific Games medal in order for Hubbard to achieve glory.

Why is fairness only important for Hubbard? These women have directly been deprived of something they have dreamed of, fought for, trained for, put their bodies on the line to achieve, and in Feagaiga’s case, overcome the most atrocious start in life for. The leg up out of poverty, deprivation and violence that her sport should have delivered to her has been less that it should have been, because “inclusion” in sport as it currently operates, isn’t designed to help her any more.

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone support Hubbard, even the most ardent of genderists are understandably silent on this topic. It’s that obviously wrong.

Sophoclesthefox - thank you for this.

Yes, I think it's really important to be very specific and tell the stories of those women who are losing out.

Let's not let them become faceless.

Yes, thank you, Sophocles.

Well said Sophocles and congratulations to those women for their dedication and commitment to reaching the top of their game as sportswomen.

There are thousands - maybe even tens of thousands - of middle aged men in the world who were amazing at a sport as a junior but - for whatever reason - did not make it as a senior.

I’m married to one. We have cabinets full of dusty old trophies, a massive box of international kit in our loft somewhere and my in laws have boxes full of old newspaper articles.

And then dh got on with his life and accepted that it wasn’t to be and did something else instead.

But some men can’t accept that just because you had a spotlight as a child it doesn’t mean that it is yours by right and so, when it dims, they don’t shrug their shoulders and move on. They cheat.

Slightly odd thing about that Times article - in a couple of places it says that for most of Laural's life Laural benefited from being male. As if they suddenly don't now.

Hubbard absorbed all these benefits until her mid-30s, equipping her with a visibly different physique to her weightlifting peers

I also hadn't spotted this before In 2012, she was appointed to the position of Executive Officer for Olympic Weightlifting New Zealand, and in the same year transitioned to female, becoming Laurel Hubbard.

Definitely no conflict of interest there.

So many opportunities in life for Hubbard.

See also having reporting of a traffic accident that seriously injured two people quashed so it didn’t interfere with training.

Quite an influential person.

@Mumoftwoinprimary totally agree. My husband was also a great sports man in his younger years and now, in his 40s still does a bit but clearly isn’t Olympic material! But even now, there are probably a couple of sports that, with a bit of training, he could possibly compete with women, but he would never do that in a million years.
I have two boys and one absolutely loves soccer. At school they have a girls team that plays all year round and an open team that plays in the winter. He’s on the A team for the open (which is only comprised of boys, although the B team has one girl and the C team is about 40% girls), and I suppose, if he was an asshole, he could demand to play on the girls team in the summer as well. Again, he’s not an asshole and so it wouldn’t even occur to him to ask! In fact he’s said, “I wish we could do soccer all year round like the girls”, not “I wish I could play on their team” - partly I assume because he doesn’t want to play with girls (he’s 8 and doesn’t want much to do with girls at this stage) but also because he understands that it would be totally unfair.

DH has just been asking about this. Does anyone have a link to the photo showing a range of TW athletes alongside their female counterparts?
It’s such a stark visual of f what we’re up against.

@MayflowerMaisie

DH has just been asking about this. Does anyone have a link to the photo showing a range of TW athletes alongside their female counterparts? It’s such a stark visual of f what we’re up against.

Emma Hilton's video has one example after another - it's astonishing seeing it like this (6mins onwards) - Hubbard is at 8:04:

@EndoplasmicReticulum

This is unfair. As others have said, not just on other competitors but on the woman who loses her place on the team.

Not only current sportswomen. If new records, Olympic, National and World , are set at the Olympics, which they often are, those records become not only the pinnacle of an athlete’s personal achievement and a visible testament to their hard work and dedication, but are the new standard for upcoming athletes to aspire to.

If however new records in women’s events are achieved by people with an unfair advantage , say a grossly inflated level of testosterone, or a body which has been through male puberty, then not only do they not represent female achievement, but are for all time an unachievable goal for future female athletes who realise that they will never hold a National record, or a World record or stand on an Olympic podium as an Olympic stadium record holder.

How can we say to future athletes, “Sorry, but you do understand that you have lost this competition before you even leave the dressing room .”

When (I hope) sense and science prevail and women's sport returns to being female only, these records and achievements should be given to the rightful female holders of them, and those women recognised properly.

I've posted this elsewhere. Here it is again.

This article is amazing. A former trans athlete claims that the tests they underwent before being allowed to compete were 'violations' and that 'the Olympics' are not set up to properly accommodate trans athletes. 



“Transgender rules changed in 2015 and Worley says progress has been made to ensure that Hubbard is not subjected to the same "violations" she suffered.



But Worley worries there will be serious health and wellbeing consequences for Hubbard in meeting the anti-doping requirements at these games."

The gist seems to be that this person believes that the testosterone requirements are too rigid.



"Worley explains to The Detail why she believes the Olympics are not ready for Hubbard. She thinks the system is still failing her, due to the strict testosterone limits which put Hubbard's health at risk.



"It’s like taking the gas out of the car," says Worley. "When you lose testosterone in your physiology it’s like the car starts to shake when you take the petrol out of it. Certain functions of the body decrease or even stop functioning altogether."



Further, 

" "Everybody needs hormones, it’s just that we need different types of hormones depending on chromosome type you are. And that's the problem, we've tried to homogenise gender, and we've tried to compare apples with oranges.



She says the thinking was that "if you lower an athlete's testosterone levels (of someone) who was XY chromosome that somehow that is going to match somebody who is XX. No, you're making that XY chromosome person completely unwell, long term in sport and to end of life, thinking that's going to somehow assimilate to somebody who is XX chromosome (who doesn't need testosterone to stay well)."



So there are sex-based biological differences and when it comes to those born as males needing testosterone these need to be acknowledged ... but when it comes to the advantages in weight-lifting that males have over females they need to be ignored.

www.stuff.co.nz/sport/women-in-sport/300309941/the-detail-kiwi-athlete-laurel-hubbard-set-to-be-first-transgender-olympian-but-why-did-it-take-so-long

I was watching an item on the news the other night about whether or not the Olympics should go ahead in Japan due to rising Covid cases. It included speculation that NZ may not attend as it will cost lives and potentially hurt their zero Covid strategy. And all I was thinking was that I bet NZ would absolutely love for the games to be cancelled because of Hubbard. It would give them 3 years to potentially get off the hook and have the IOC make decisions that would save them from possibly being front an centre of this debate.

@trancepants it seems like madness to go ahead with the Olympics. It will be interesting to see whether New Zealand take part should they go ahead.

A decent get out for them.



She says the thinking was that "if you lower an athlete's testosterone levels (of someone) who was XY chromosome that somehow that is going to match somebody who is XX. No, you're making that XY chromosome person completely unwell, long term in sport and to end of life, thinking that's going to somehow assimilate to somebody who is XX chromosome (who doesn't need testosterone to stay well)."

(Now) Veronica Ivy claimed it was a violation of human rights for any suppression or medical intervention to be deemed necessary.

McKinnon believes subjecting trans women to testosterone blocking violates their human rights.

eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/01/11/these-transgender-cyclists-have-olympian-disagreement-how-define-fairness/995434001/

I heard that Hubbard had had a 'career ruining' elbow injury and was thought to be unlikely to compete again.

How can we say to future athletes, “Sorry, but you do understand that you have lost this competition before you even leave the dressing room .”

Well by the ideology we should apparently be explaining to them that they should be proud and happy to be merely providing a nice, affirming context by their presence for more important people than them to be celebrated and to achieve. #servicehuman

It does seem so there Sparticus.

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]

She says the thinking was that "if you lower an athlete's testosterone levels (of someone) who was XY chromosome that somehow that is going to match somebody who is XX. No, you're making that XY chromosome person completely unwell, long term in sport and to end of life, thinking that's going to somehow assimilate to somebody who is XX chromosome (who doesn't need testosterone to stay well)."

(Now) Veronica Ivy claimed it was a violation of human rights for any suppression or medical intervention to be deemed necessary.

McKinnon believes subjecting trans women to testosterone blocking violates their human rights.

eu.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2018/01/11/these-transgender-cyclists-have-olympian-disagreement-how-define-fairness/995434001/[/quote]
I don't disagree. Just rewrite that more clearly with 'male' and 'female' instead of 'XY person' and 'XX person' , and accept that it's wrong to allow (not 'subject' - no one is forcing them) males to compete in the female category, and then move on to find a better solution rather than persisting on a route which is unfair and unsafe for women.

www.standard.co.uk/sport/sport-olympics/transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-olympics-bad-joke-anna-vanbellinghen-b938073.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1622451852

Allowing transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard to compete at the Olympics is unfair and "like a bad joke", says rival Anna Vanbellinghen.

Vanbellinghen, who competes in the same +87kg division as Hubbard, said she fully supported the transgender community but the principle of inclusion should not be "at the expense of others"

Iain Dale radiating strokey beard ‘it’s been suggested women might be actual ppl but you know men’ vibes. He’s getting his arse handed to him

twitter.com/iaindale/status/1399293084962365441?s=21

Hopefully more athletes will follow the example set by this brave woman and comment on the clear unfairness of this...

"When the qualifying process for Tokyo ends tomorrow Hubbard will be guaranteed a place.

Until now, none of Hubbard's rivals has spoken on the controversial rules that appear to give the New Zealander a huge and, to many, unfair advantage.

Athletes from the United States and Britain are potentially adversely affected but, understandably, they and their National Federations have shown no desire to comment on the controversy.

Anna Vanbellinghen of Belgium has broken the athletes' silence with a considered statement on Hubbard’s achievement."

www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1108399/anna-vanbellinghen-hubbard

Is it just me or does it seem unfair that poor caster semenya has to go through endless humiliating treatment, yet some transgender woman can get through and play on the women's team? Haven't rtft so correct me if I've got it wrong..