Laurel Hubbard to go to Tokyo

[Biscuitsanddoombar]

Not a surprise and hopefully it’ll open some eyes about the utter ridiculousness of allowing someone who is male to compete against women in weightlifting

www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/may/05/trans-weightlifter-laurel-hubbard-set-to-make-history-at-tokyo-olympics

Yes. I read that too - the scientists who advised on the testosterone level to choose. They were told to find a defensible way to make it happen.

It still chokes me. The idea that anyone should be told they have to medicate their testosterone level to do sport (i don't think Caster Semenya or Dutee Chand should have to do it either, separate issue). The complete disregard for women. There were women of colour on that committee. Betrayers.

@PermanentTemporary

Yes. I read that too - the scientists who advised on the testosterone level to choose. They were told to find a defensible way to make it happen.

It still chokes me. The idea that anyone should be told they have to medicate their testosterone level to do sport (i don't think Caster Semenya or Dutee Chand should have to do it either, separate issue). The complete disregard for women. There were women of colour on that committee. Betrayers.

If it's the committee I'm thinking of, the women were a minority so I'm not sure I'd put the blame on them... didn't something like two thirds have a Y chromosome?

The sports governing bodies were quick to include transwomen in women’s sport based on extremely flimsy evidence.

‘Surprisingly’ they aren’t keen to remove them from women’s sport despite increasing amounts of high quality evidence it’s unfair (and unsafe in contact sports). Some of this new evidence even comes from Joanna Harper, who did the very poor research that was part of the decision to include them in the first place, he has now done some much better research which comes to a different conclusion.

The sports governing bodies want to continue to include transwomen in women’s sports, even through the evidence shows it’s unfair and unsafe. They think the inclusion of people born male is far more important than fairness for women, and more important than the risk of serious injury or even death for female athletes in some sports. They need to stand up and say very clearly that they don’t care about women’s deaths, injuries or even just their right to fair competition, because it’s clear from their actions that this is what they think.

Sorry, ‘who has now done some much better research’

A third of women on that committee should have been enough to achieve something if they had cared at all. They could have fought it, could have resigned en masse and called a press conference, could have stayed and pressed for exemptions. I'll admit I don't know the story but if they fought it and lost they could tell the story too. Instead we got the 2015 changes and there are an increasing number of voices arguing against any testosterone changes to compete in women's sport - they just want to take it all.

I don’t understand why the scientists on the committee accepted the evidence, it was so poor. I think it shows how committed they are to the ideology and how little regard they have for female athletes. They can’t possibly have assessed that paper as being conclusive.

The committee was looking for an outcome that included at least some transwomen.

To blame the women on the committee is a bit off. They were in a minority and it's a very sexist environment.

Bottom line is as with everything. Men look at this and think God they must have had a hard time how can we help.

They don't really think about the women at all.

The limit set is ridiculous though. It's in the normal range for men!!

The limit set is achievable. I mean, in a way I see why. If you're going to say that males can be in women's sport, the rest is detail. I'm disappointed that Martina Navratilova is trying to find a compromise; that the idea that women's sport is for women has been framed as the extremist position.

What message does it send that arguably the main sporting body in the world has stated that men who have s testosterone level within the normal range, at the lower end, are seen as the same as women to them?

I mean it's a slap in the face for women but it says a lot about how they view men as well.

This crazy. One day we’ll look back and wonder how we let this happen (hopefully from a future where it has been regulated out).

I don’t know the full Laurel Hubbard story but is it publicly known is she has fully transitioned with surgery or does she still have male genitalia and testes?

No idea bluetongue. Never attempted to find out. Doesn't matter to me, though I think it would male a difference to some (Martina, for eg).

I don’t know the full Laurel Hubbard story but is it publicly known is she has fully transitioned with surgery or does she still have male genitalia and testes?

What difference does that make?

The requirement to have risky invasive surgery in order to fulfill rules whether it's competing in sport or anything else is wrong.

I don't blame anyone for not having the surgery. Not at all.

It should not be a condition for anything.

The line should be male/ female for the handful of things where it is important. As it used to be.

I completely agree Getbil.

@somethinginoffensive

I don’t know the full Laurel Hubbard story but is it publicly known is she has fully transitioned with surgery or does she still have male genitalia and testes?

What difference does that make?

No idea. As some trans activists are wont to say, you don't play sport with your genitalia.

No, indeed... it's the rest of the male body which they play sport with. And a possibly suboptimal male body is not a female body.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/weightlifting/57013419

This BBC article does not mention whether Hubbard would be competing against males or females. Very vague. Although to be fair, BBC Sport has been getting worse for a few years now so this standard of article isn't unusual.

I can see this getting very little coverage from the BBC when it comes to it unless there is a British woman going up against Hubbard. Unfortunately.

Women's sport is now 'female's and mediocre male's sport.'

I had written difficulties terms for male and female but I don't even know if I'm "allowed" to say that.

Different

The DM piece ( www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9553101/amp/Fury-decision-let-transsexual-enter-Tokyo-Olympics.html )
is fantastic. Lots and lots of clearly captioned pictures.

I can see this getting very little coverage from the BBC when it comes to it unless there is a British woman going up against Hubbard. Unfortunately.

I wish I could recall the new class in women's cycling which is introduced this year - and where this might happen if there is a squad for it which is feasible given the standing of British Cycling (despite the various scandals).

@NiceGerbil absolutely. No incentives for major surgery which by all accounts doesn't even improve psychological outcomes.

Interesting that the DM article says that Hubbard set junior national records in the late 1990s, but then seemingly failed to translate junior success into the senior levels.

Brilliant piece in the Queensland (Australia) newspaper - from the perspective of a retired female weightlifter:

www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/deborah-lovely-acason-womens-weightlifting-must-be-about-fairness/news-story/d7628e8e83c5597a31788ae4d40bcc6d