Britain's youngest trans child

[poshme]

Article in daily fail (sorry)

4 year old female twin says she is a boy (like her twin brother) and expresses interest in firefighters & police officers & doesn't like pigtails.

So the parents are transitioning their 4 year old and saying they have grown up conversations about gender with them.

Sigh.

It wasn't the cat comment. I get that. It's one of the many reasons I don't have one. Also, sadly allergic.
Someone else made a *side eye vegan comment. That's the one I was a bit ugh about.

And as seen above, it turns out that it's maybe people who aren't being vegan saying they're that draws the sarcasm.
We need a word for fake vegans. Fegans?

Back to the subject at hand, we are raising Ds pretty gender neutral, but I'd be horrified if someone suggested him wearing pink means a lifetime of surgery.

Then...Firefighter Penny Morris is/should be a man? Yikes.

Oooo. Also from Fireman Sam the twins (!) Sarah and James "When they both grow up, want to be firefighters just like their Uncle Sam." 'Sarah' is depicted wearing dungarees firemansam.fandom.com/wiki/Sarah_and_James#:~:text=Sarah%20and%20James%20Jones%20are,behaved%20children%20living%20in%20Pontypandy.

Is Sarah then a boy? Are both the twins male?

@takingmytimeonmyride

I wanted to be boy from around 4, right through puberty (my periods started when I was 10, I hated it and wanted to be rid of them and my large breasts), till I was about 15. Fuck knows how my life would have been destroyed if I were a kid these days.

As it was my mum let me have short hair, choose whatever clothes and toys I wanted and let me do the same stuff as my brother.

I read through the criteria for gender dysphoria and would definitely have fulfilled it all as a child. Hell, even now I do! Which just shows how ridiculous and based on ridiculous gender stereotypes the whole thing is.

Totally agree, I always said I’d make a better bloke than a girl. Hated dolls as a child, preferred my brothers action men, trucks, games. Absolutely hated my breasts & periods, I’d prefer to hang out with boys, probably because I had brothers and would hang out with them and my male cousins. I’d go on nights out with the lads and could easily drink most blokes under the table when I was younger, prided myself on it. But I’m 100% woman and wouldn’t have it any other way. It dosnt bare thinking about what would have happened if I was a child or teenager in today’s society and having the whole gender identity stuff being thrown in my face all the time.

One of my DDs cut her very long hair completely short , full short back and side’s style, loves her cargo pants baggy tshirts, wears “boys” school trousers to school, loves playing football, video games. She kept being referred to as a boy by people, she just rolled her eyes most of the time but one days she said to a woman in a shop, I’m a girl, girls can have short hair too. She was only 7 at the time, I was so proud of her for sticking up for herself. Im in no doubt she doesn’t have gender issues, she just likes her own comfortable style.

Maybe if Stormy’s parents had been less stereotypical in what constitutes being a boy or being a girl means then maybe Stormy would have just been happy to be herself. Pig tails and pretty shoes do not a woman make

Interesting because (paraphrasing) one of the things that was important to the dad was "accepting people for who they are and not putting them in a box"
To me, that would mean accepting that theres no set, or defined way that a girl "should" look, behave, dress, play, speak, or think, and that they can have aspirations to be anything they want?

See Dany Cottan, or Cressida Dick as role models, if they're interested in being in the police or fire service.

Surely deciding they must be a boy because they dont like pink or pigtails is putting them in a box...?

Also how do they know what non binary is? I'm pretty sure my 11 year old doesnt know...

Friend said this to me and it struck a chord - if an anorexic child said they thought they were fat would you agree that they were and help them endanger their health by aiding them to starve themselves?

I'm so glad I was born in the 80s and had the parents I had, I think if someone had said I could be a boy instead of a girl when I was a child I would have bitten their hand off and been entirely convincing to any medical professionals involved. But I wasn't a boy I was a tom boy and still am.

No comments. Must be turned off. I wonder why

There are over 500 comments- the vast majority are very critical and sceptical of the parents.

@StrangeLookingParasite

clearly have some quite traditional gendered expectations.

The pictures of the child before the parents' grand declaration show they are absolutely rigid genderists - pink blankets, pigtails, 'pretty' shoes, pink beret, pinafore dresses on a baby, pink pinafores later, pink everything else. I don't blame her for wanting to be like her brother. I hated all that nonsense too.

I know a couple whose younger child (a teenager) declared two years ago that they wanted to identify as male and to have a male name. The mother of this young person is very traditional in these matters, also in her own clothing; lots of pink, lots of lavender, a lot of girly pinafores, long hair, "prettiness." Very traditional and also overbearing. The father is a gentler character, he means well but, is way too passive in the face of his wife's overbearing-ness. (She is overbearing about A LOT of things, not just gender.)

Their teenager, like many now identifying as trans, is autistic. Very literal. So, in her mind, if you are not into all this pretty pinkness and the wearing of cute little pinafores, you must be male. Or ought to be, at least. I think I can see where she is coming from:she is rejecting her mother's suffocatingly narrow version of what female-ness is. While not having the social skills and life experience necessary to navigate the maze.

This is so depressing. My DS was determined he was a girl for about a year. He knows he is a boy now.

The trick is not to seize on it and question them about something that means nothing at that age. My worry would be they have essentially made this child think it is important to fix on a gender and stick with it and thus harder to swing back again to being a girl if that is what the child wants.

I wanted to be a boy from the age of 3 until some time in my teens. My parents just ignored it mostly and let me wear and do what I wanted unless there was no choice. Trousers in school were not an option for me, nor to parties or big family celebrations, but I mainly lived in them the rest of the time. Like others on this thread, I am just relieved I grew up in the 70s/80s and not now!

The poor children in that article 😢

How depressing. When my child was around that age he wanted to b a dinosaur when he grew up. 🙄

@LadyBuffOfBuffdonia

This should be illegal. It's well known children don't understand sex/gender as fixed until the end of ks1. It's a developmental stage. I fail to see how this isn't child abuse.

This. Honestly, I despair. It's so regressive.

@Shizuku
You say you were a trans girl tomboy.

What age did you trans?

Can you really not see anything strange or alarming in preschool children identifying as trans?

Interesting because (paraphrasing) one of the things that was important to the dad was "accepting people for who they are and not putting them in a box

That's the terrible irony, isn't it? People think they're being radical or progressive.

There were boy/girl twins at nursery with my daughter. When the little girl's hair was long enough her parents started to put it up in bunches. Little brother also started to have random hair elastics holding clumps of hair in place so he didn't feel left out. Funnily enough, this did not turn him into a girl.

This poor, poor kid. It's child abuse, plain and simple.

There are over 500 comments- the vast majority are very critical and sceptical of the parents

This will be immediately interperted as 'hate' and then used in a way as to suggest that it is purely transphobia which creates mental health problems in trans people.

What causes mental health issues is not being able to accommodate reality in one's self image, or being too precious or fragile and not developing resilience.

The trick is not to seize on it and question them about something that means nothing at that age. My worry would be they have essentially made this child think it is important to fix on a gender and stick with it and thus harder to swing back again to being a girl if that is what the child wants

One of the issues is that many parents 'over-share' with their children; and also tend to over-estimate their critical or conceptual faculties in dealing with information.

If you introduce such concepts into a mind not able to deal with them at that level, the child will translate that information into a form they can understand.

One of the issues is that many parents 'over-share' with their children; and also tend to over-estimate their critical or conceptual faculties in dealing with information.

Very true. Plus the “professional” services these children are referred to, do not seem to acknowledge this is happening. It’s so elementary, the “professionals” are hugely failing these children.

The fact that the parents have gone to a newspaper suggests something of their motivations.

Tv reality show.

Such nonsense!

It’s much more socially awkward to gently correct people that your child is a girl who likes “boy” things and that you are cool with that. Even more so for the reverse. No kudos and newspapers splashes and special support groups and pats on the back from progressives for that, believe me - I’ve been there.

Social transition is hugely damaging and confusing for children of this age.

I’m also wondering if the child has much face to face time with many other children - or if it’s mostly brother and daddy around (COVID and all that). I got the impression that dad was more of the driver here (maybe not but that’s what I read into it).

When the child goes to nursery and mixes with all sorts of other children, with their likes and dislikes and preferences... I went through a phase of wanting to have been adopted (my best friend in nursery was and it sounded rather cool). Mum was bemused (since all us sisters looked very along). ‘Mum- are you sure I wasn’t adopted?’

(extract from article)
"When Stormy and Arlo started nursery at around one, the little lad had not started transitioning, but as the years went on and Stormy began to live as a boy full-time, Matthew claims adults struggled to come to terms with the change.

Matthew said: 'We've had problems with adults. He now lives as a boy, goes to nursery as a boy, all his friends know he's a boy.

Although Matthew insists Stormy isn't worried about starting school in September, he claims he has his own concerns about how the youngster will cope in bathrooms or PE changing rooms."

Department of Education statutory guidance (October 2020)

We are aware that topics involving gender and biological sex can be complex and sensitive matters to navigate. You should not reinforce harmful stereotypes, for instance by suggesting that children might be a different gender based on their personality and interests or the clothes they prefer to wear. Resources used in teaching about this topic must always be age-appropriate and evidence based. Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material. While teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing, teachers should always seek to treat individual students with sympathy and support.

You should work together with parents on any decisions regarding your school’s treatment of their child, in line with the school’s safeguarding policy and the statutory guidance on working together to safeguard children."
www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum#using-external-agencies

www.transgendertrend.com/department-for-education-rse-guidance-schools/

Does Department of Education have influence over nursery standards?
It seems wrong that a nursery might risk setting up a young child and parents to have expectations which are in conflict with Primary school's statutory responsibilities.

@Justhadathought

There are over 500 comments- the vast majority are very critical and sceptical of the parents

This will be immediately interperted as 'hate' and then used in a way as to suggest that it is purely transphobia which creates mental health problems in trans people.

What causes mental health issues is not being able to accommodate reality in one's self image, or being too precious or fragile and not developing resilience.

The problem is, society allows this now and actively encourages it under the name of ‘inclusion’ and if anyone dares question it they are instantly branded transaphobic.

Worse thing is, most people are really understanding and don’t really care how other people chose to live their lives, but people have many questions surrounding this whole issue, yet are being silenced.

He claims he has his own concerns about how the youngster will cope in bathrooms or PE changing rooms

I bet he does.......especially as the child nears puberty.