Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

I’m sorry if I’m using this forum incorrectly, I’m new here. I’m in a bad place where I just don’t know what the fuck I’m doing right now.

My ex “came out” as trans (I caught him using my underwear for sexual reasons) a year ago. I caught him on Grindr last December (2022). We waffled between staying together or not until March, when he cheated on me again. I kicked him out, but we’re still seeing each other and having sex.

I am deeply, deeply, disturbed by AGP and his actions. This should make it easy to let go, but I just can’t. We were together for 8 years where he was totally normal. He was happy, driven, creative, charming, and just an incredibly well-rounded human. This AGP stuff came out of nowhere and it feels like a completely different person. I have such a strong, deep compulsion to fix him, to get the old version of him back.

He’s just crazy now. He looks crazy. He cut his own bangs and coupled with the smudged eyeliner and the awful fake voice, it makes him look mentally ill. I can’t accept that this is him. There has to be sanity in there somewhere. I want to save him so badly, but I know he doesn’t want to be saved. I just don’t know what to do, I don’t know why I’m putting myself through this.

Regardless of the specific circumstances finding it hard to walk away from a relationship that used to be good is a fairly universal experience, no?
It’s pretty much the same for women married to serial adulterers, women married to alcoholics, women married to gamblers that lose the family home on a horse etc.

The heterosexual men who traditionally trans in midlife (although the phenomenon seems to be increasingly present in younger men too) are addicted to the idea of themselves as women. Like other addicts their behaviours escalate, sometimes the addiction trajectory is interrupted by periods of time ‘on the wagon’ followed by relapse. This is exhausting for the people who love them, especially partners, some of whom end up emulating the addicts behaviours themselves.

I’m not a transwidow, but I am the ex wife of an alcoholic. I still love the man he was before the addiction took hold of him, but I have made peace with the idea that the man I loved has gone forever, and the man he is now is not a man I would’ve chosen to enter a relationship with.

if you met your partner as he is now, would you enter a relationship with him? Would you date him, move in with him, marry him, plan a future life with the person you see in front of you today?
From your post I’m going to assume your answer is ‘Fuck no, I wouldn’t even give him my real phone number’.

Where does your compulsion to Fix the Unfixable Man stem from? Most women have it to a certain extent (female socialisation!) but some of us have it more than others, to the point it becomes a self harming behaviour.
It’s often a manifestation of what we witnessed growing up, habitually reinforced in our social interactions until we believe it be natural.

if you can find the roots of YOUR feelings and behaviours with a counsellor (NOT a couples counsellor!) you will likely find it much easier to let this man go.

He doesn’t want you to save him, he’s likely utterly enchanted with the ‘woman’ he believes himself to be, so for you to ‘save him’ would be to destroy his dream.
He’s far more likely to be resentful towards you than thankful.

Competing with the Other Woman is never good for our own emotional wellbeing, even if we ‘win’ the ‘prize’ (a cheating man) has become too poisonous to keep hold of for long.
When the ‘Other Woman’ is your man’s own fantasy self, what sort of prize would you get even if you ‘won’?

I recommend you start a thread over on the relationships board because sometimes you just need to hear a bunch of women saying ‘LTB’ (‘Leave the Bastard’) to make what you already know inside your own head and feel inside your own heart real enough to act on.

Think of who you were when you first met him - if Current You could talk to Old You, what would you tell her?

Took a Big L:

I am a transwidow. I felt exactly the feelings you are feeling. The various feelings you are having have been widely felt among those of us with partners/spouses like yours who began engaging in cross-dressing for sexual gratification and then announced they were trans. The Clog Lady is right: their behavior is addictive, and escalates; they are ever on the search for the next big high. He is likely feeding off your femininity and femaleness, like a vampire, while at the same time resenting you because you are the woman he wishes he could be (and thus the term "cis privilege").

From hard experience I tell you this: You cannot fix him. You cannot fix him whether by reasoned talk or by waiting for him to come to his senses again. You cannot control the situation by participating in it. He is no longer who he was. He is no longer who he was and you cannot turn back the clock. He is now who he is, and even if by some miracle (that's how unlikely it is) he were to come out the other side (I use the subjunctive tense to indicate he will not), he would not ever be again who he was when you fell in love with him. The relationship you had is over. You must do as The Clog Lady says, and consider whether if you met him as he is now, with his crazy bangs and his smudged eyeliner and his fake voice, you would choose to be in a relationship with him.

I know this is not an easy leap of logic to make. I know it isn't easy to accept. But it is necessary for you, your future, and your sanity.

From my own experience, I cannot stress enough that you must stop having sex with him. You are a prop in his sexual activities, not a partner. He is using you as a conduit to access female sexual response, which he will then ape in his solitary masturbatory fantasies. He may put pressure on you to act the "man" to his "woman" or the "lesbian" to his "lesbian." You may without realizing it fall into the damaging mindset of learning to disengage while having sex with him, in order not to experience the dehumanizing effects of being treated like an object or subjecting yourself to his views of sex and his various acts.

You have done the first hard thing by kicking him out. Now you must do the next hard thing and go no contact.

Yes, I know I would never choose to involve myself with this new version of him—even without the crazy appearance, his new personality is morally bankrupt. He’s duplicitous, manipulative, conniving, cheating, and, as you said, an addict.

But I know that the part of me that wants to try is motivated by the fact that addiction can be overcome. I can’t seem to convince myself that this is the “real him”. I know the real him, the one not driven by compulsion and lunacy. And he was a wonderful person. How can I possibly give that up? I don’t know how to let go.

TheClogLady fantastic advice. I know three or four women who were involved with alcoholics, one referee to drink as his other woman. She felt even if he got sober, he could always slip and blame her. So, very hard.

Thank you for sharing your hard-eon wisdom. Xx

Even if he did desist (highly unlikely). How would you ever trust him again?

Also addicts have to want to stop. Men who trans have no reason these days to want to stop because it's a ticket to "stunning and brave" higher status.

Of course it's not easy to let go. I was married for 32 years when the trans bomb was dropped. And you won't let go until you have convinced yourself that staying is worse than letting go. No one of us can convince you to let go now; we can only tell you that you will do less damage to yourself, and give him less opportunity to do damage to you, by leaving now.

Clearly you are looking for a reason not to let go, and trying to bargain your way out of "having" to, hence your reach for the rationalization "addiction can be overcome." But addiction can only be overcome if the addict wants to stop, and no one but the addict can make that choice and do the work to make it happen. You cannot do it for him. So what exactly is it you will "try"? How exactly are you going to make him want to give up his addiction? The families of addicts of all kinds can tell you it's futile. All you can do is tell him that you believe he has acquired an unhealthy addiction, and that although you love him, you cannot stand by and watch him as he destroys himself and damages you.

@TookABigL

I am also a transwidow, and finally being able to see what my ex had become, not who he had been, was one of the most painful realisations of my life, but also liberating in the end. Because there was no longer any hope, and that was freeing. It took years, he unburdened himself of his sexual proclivities shortly after we were married, and this was 2012, when there simply weren't resources for trans widows like there are now.

What finally did it is that enough circumstances and heartaches stacked up so that I could see something like this; there were things my husband wasn't capable of, or at least had enough moral barriers in place to stop himself from doing without serious consideration, that this new persona not only didn't have, but revelled in: infidelity, sexual coercion, malicious manipulation, outright lying, creepy mimicry, and a kind of shallowness that seemed both affected and pathological at the same time.

It took me a long time to realise that, no matter who he had been before, something had taken hold of him deeply, and he was consumed. The person I knew before began to appear less and less as this compulsion overcame him, and he WELCOMED it. There was nothing I could do to stop it (or at least try to) that didn't cause me more pain than it caused him, because he was riding a dopamine high. Who I knew him to be just wasn't there anymore, and dealing with that realisation while still seeing him in person was a complicated, cataclysmic grief.

I say all this because, if I had had the resources that are available now, if I have been able to hear so many other womens' stories, through this resource and others, I think I would have been better able to see what was coming down the pipeline in the early days, and, even if logistically it would have taken time to leave, I would have been able to disengage myself emotionally from him enough so that I wouldn't have been so broken down and scarred by the time I finally left. What I mean is that it was my continued attempts to fight for who he was that hurt me the most in the end. It's a bitter pill, but the sooner you are able to get free emotionally (and I believe sex is included in that), the sooner you will be able to gain clarity, independence, freedom, and, after a pile of work that in my experience was both grueling and so very worth it, peace. It's the initial jump that's the hardest part.

This new persona not only didn't have, but revelled in: infidelity, sexual coercion, malicious manipulation, outright lying, creepy mimicry, and a kind of shallowness that seemed both affected and pathological at the same time.

Yes, this. My ex wanted us to stay together as a non-sexual and non-romantic marriage. It was then that I realized I was being used as a financial and emotional prop by someone who didn't care about me and just considered me to be convenient and useful. It was very hard to deal with the fact that I still loved this person but he didn't give a damn about me. So I filed for divorce. Years later, I still feel scarred from this experience, but my life is so much better now.

TookABigL Hey this may not be a addiction this could just be him either genuinely wanting to be a women, or some weird sexual fantasy. Either way if I was you I would get rid. I was with a cross dresser he promised it was just for fun, it never went away. He said odd things. When we slept together i got the impression he was pretending he was a woman. Now he is calling himself mummy like a lunatic. He actually calls himself mummy. Its rediclous. Ive literally wanted to commit suicide because its took over my life. If I was you I would move on. He is no longer the person you knew, this is not just a addiction and regardless he probably loves it to much to stop. If your sleeping with him he could be pretending he is a woman also God knows what the hell goes on in their head.

Then he sends me texts like this. That he “doesn’t want to be this way”? Objectively, I know he’s stringing me along. I know he’s trying to give me hope that he isn’t totally depraved and hasn’t completely lost himself. But I also know he’ll be back on Grindr in a month. I know that I just have to find the strength to give up on him. But God, that’s so hard.

If he wants to shag men (or more likely have men shag him), you're never going to be enough. And that's before we start thinking about the risk of STIs.

Ah yes, this phase. He's an adult who is responsible for his actions and their consequences. And his actions are abhorrent.

He is too unstable and self-destructive to provide anything meaningful to any kind of relationship currently. 'I still want you in my life.' Well, of course he does. You're providing emotional energy and sexual activity. What is best for you though?

This dynamic is where our stories intersect with the partners of addicts. And this is why friends and family cut addicts off, not for lack of love but because they create broken trust and pain wherever they go. But (and I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this burned me in the past) there are no resources for appropriate treatment for these men nowadays because once 'gender issues' come into the picture, that identity is celebrated and hugboxxed, and everything else (the sexual compulsion, porn consumption, abuse, narcissism etc) is completely ignored.

At the end of the day, actions have consequences and it sounds like he's been a right piece of work lately. You do not have to stick around to have your mental, sexual and emotional health compromised again and again. ❤️

I’m the mother of a 45 year old son, who announced just before Christmas that he has gender dysphoria. I’ve really struggled with this and I feel bereaved. I’m working on separating the gorgeous little boy and teenager, my son was, from who he is today.

He has three young children, and a wife. They are in the middle of separating. I’m trying my very best to distance myself from the situation, as otherwise I’m not coping.

I reached out to my DIL but she didn’t want to know. It’s possible she lumps me in with him and wants me out of her life as well. I can’t say I blame her.

Going forward, I’ve told my son (he will always be my son) that I love him but I don’t want anything to do with his trans issues. At first he put enormous pressure on me to sit alone with him whilst he gave me all the details. I stood firm. I saw a counsellor and he wanted her contact details so he could speak to her about me. Of course I refused and the counsellor said she wouldn’t speak to him anyway.

I have to stick to what’s best for me. I’m nearly 70 and not in the best health. I can’t let his issues dominate the rest of my life. Having said that, I’m really sad, for myself, for him, his wife and most of all his children. He told the children very early on, with his reason being that modern parents don’t lie to their children.

Thanks for letting me post on this thread. It’s hard to find where to go in my situation.

I'm sorry for you loss, Cholumenosoapy.

Have you contacted Bayswater? I know they're geared towards parents of young ROGD people but there might be other parents in your position, or at least who you will share some issues with.

Thanks for understanding @TinselAngel It means a lot and is much appreciated. I have been in touch with Bayswater and a couple of other organisations. They are very focused on younger trans and my situation is not really dealt with. I have found some parents on the forums but they are parents of either teens or young adults. No one seems to be dealing with an older man and the fall out for grandchildren.

Advance apologies for temporarily taking this thread off on a parents of transitioners tangent rather than keeping it on topic for partners, I promise not to do it for long!

As a stepmum to an ROGD nearly-17 year old and a three-times-married woman with multiple mother-in-laws I have a potentially useful combo of lived experiences (😬)

(Plus, I’m a major Tinsel Angel fan and aspiring trans widow ally 😍)

Firstly, there are increasing numbers of parents of adult children joining the gender skeptical parent groups - thousands of ROGD teens are now young adults anyway and once a child is legally an adult a parent has very little sway so there isn’t much difference between the experiences of say, a parent of a 25 year old and the parent of a 45 year old (except for grandchildren being more likely).
I would definitely encourage parents of transitioning children of any age to make contact with these groups - the more parents of adults who make contact, the more likely it is that tailored peer support will come into existence.
In psychosocial terms an individual’s transition affects the entire family ‘system’ (something that trans widows will attest to).

Perhaps with some time and space your soon to be ex daughter in law will be in a
position where she is willing to think again re: contact with you @Cholumenosoapy?

Obvs I don’t know what your relationship has been like during the marriage but if I were in a similar situation I would send my imaginary STBXDIL a good old fashioned letter (not an email or text) stating what you have told us - that you understand why their marriage is ending, that you accept her decision to prioritise the well-being of her children, that you are disappointed in your son’s actions and that you are mindful of how difficult her position is.
If you are able to offer practical support (help with childcare or finances etc) or emotional support, offer it, or ask for permission to send the kids Xmas and birthday cards/gifts via her but (and I cannot stress this enough) don’t make her or the kids any promises you can’t keep (her STBX has already done quite enough of that thank you very much!)

And then BACK RIGHT OFF (with the assurance that your door will still be open to her and/or the kids even if it takes several years for her to want to come knock on it).

And yes, protect yourself, your son is 45 - he’s of the age where the parent/child relationship naturally and gradually should flip until he is the one looking out for his mum’s well-being, he shouldn’t be draining her of her emotional energy.
I’m glad you have found a counsellor who is able to support YOU and isn’t unduly influenced by the transactivism that has been targeting this professional arena.

Lastly, If relevant, I would seriously consider writing/rewriting your will.

Late life male transitioners burn through money at a rate akin to a gambling addict, clothes, shoes, wigs (& hair transplants) make up, multiple cosmetic surgeries (often combined with a foreign holiday), nights out, even a new, ‘girly’ car - it’s like a classic midlife, sports-car-and-shagging-the-secretary crisis but with infinitely more stuff to spaff the family resources on.

If you are likely to leave even a modest inheritance then reorganising your will to leave all (or most) of what would’ve been your son’s directly to his children would be a simple way to counteract some of the negative financial impact that a typical, late life transitioning father has on his children.

Just make the changes privately with your solicitor - no need for endless family dramas talking about it - when it becomes relevant you’ll already be gone and your former DIL and grandchildren will be left with the knowledge that you meant what you said in your letter re: prioritising the long-term well-being of your grandchildren over the desires of your son.

I’m sorry this is happening to you but you are not alone and hopefully you will be able to make contact with others in a similar position.

Genspect has a long list of orgs on their link page (will go fetch it and add to subsequent post as MN has an annoying habit of reloading and wiping an in-progress comment - we desperately need a ‘save draft’ function!)

Here’s the genspect link list:

https://genspect.org/groups/

I have made a post in my own preferred FB support group for gender sceptical parents asking for info and recommendations for parents of truly-adult age transitioners. Will let you know what comes back (unless you are already in the group!)

Thanks @TheClogLady . I’ve already done what you suggest regarding my DIL. I’ve already been in contact with several groups. I’ve backed away recently as I end up posting and then thinking about it all much too much.

Thanks for reaching out to me.

Gender ideology ruins families in all directions - it’s so destructive 😢

Just to add @TheClogLady , the forums for support are full of never ending, heartbreaking stories. I’ve read so many really awful accounts of how this transgender phenomenon affects parents, and apart from telling each other, we understand, it’s bloody hopeless. No one has any answers, you just read the same painful stories over and over. Nothing changes, you’re still the parent of a transgender child. 😭

I was offish with my ex MIL after I left my ex (which was when he decided to transition). I blamed ex FIL for a lot of why my ex turned out how he did. And ex MIL for not intervening between them more effectively.

I came around though and we've maintained friendly relations ever since. So there's every chance the situation might change for you Cholumenosoapy

@Cholumenosoapy - please do what you can to prioritize the kids. Be there for them as much as you can. My children lost not only a father, but his entire side of the family.

If you do write a will, leave your son $1 so he cannot contest it!

Thanks @TinselAngel . I can quite see why my DIL is distant from me. I really made an effort to reach out to her but I’ve subsequently given her the space she clearly needs. It doesn’t help that they live 200 miles from us.