Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

Hello MNHQ. Why the deletion? I didn't say anything "hateful". I was thinking to a time when women are free to solve men's problems.... We read testimony from female detransitioners about (1) why they were seduced by the GI cult and (2) how they got out of the cult. This is the next step for males. Psychotherapists and psychiatrists should be helping their male GD suffering patients to resist the fetish, to resist the siren voice in their minds in order to remain normal - please note that in section 25 of the GRA "gender dysphoria" is defined as a "disorder". GD is a disorder in UK law. Please do not remove. I will copy for my records and future use.

I suspect its the 'C' word that's they objected to. I really wish they would just redact the word instead of removing the whole post.

I am utterly mystified. Why SPECIFICALLY are you removing my post?

I was thinking to a time when women are free to solve men's problems.... We read testimony from female detransitioners about (1) why they were seduced by the GI beliefs and (2) how they got out of the belief system This is the next step for males. Psychotherapists and psychiatrists should be helping their male GD suffering patients to resist the trans voice, to resist the siren voice in their minds in order to remain normal - please note that in section 25 of the GRA "gender dysphoria" is defined as a "disorder". GD is a disorder in UK law. Please do not remove.

If you report the deleted post yourself you can ask them. They're unlikely to respond on the thread.

Sorry to hear this is happening to you soapy. My ex in-laws took a fingers-in-ears approach, pretending nothing significant had happened and never ever asking me how I or their grandchildren were and never referring to what had happened. Families tend to close ranks regardless of the selfish or uncaring behaviour of a loved one, so if you can continue to be supportive and acknowledge to your daughter in law that this must be very difficult, you hope she is okay, ask if you can do anything to help, and if you can help with money, offer it without obligation or controlling how it is spent, that will be really helpful. You will feel conflicted as this is your child, but you don't have to 'take sides' by being equally caring and compassionate to her. If not already he is likely soon to have lots of support and congratulations for his 'bravery'. At the time my husband's colleague notes his bravery I rather felt the bravest people of all were his distressed, traumatized and bewildered children. Good for you for trying to support all parties.

Thanks everyone, your understanding and support are invaluable. My heart goes out to each of you dealing with this nightmare.

I’ve had some difficulties during my life but this is the worst thing ever.

@Cholumenosoapy Thank you...my heart goes out to you too. I send you love and light because words don't help but knowing you are not alone really can. Take care. X

Hi all, I have spent the last 2.5 weeks reading all these threads and various spin off thread/articles/podcasts etc. Its now time to get my membership card. On Valentines Day, how apt.
I'm 43 with 3 kids who are 9,7 and 5. I have been married to my husband for almost 11 years and with him for almost 15. My husband is a non-violent, albeit at times emotionally coercive, AGP who has now come out as transgender.
For various reasons I won't bore you with (although no history of SA) I was still a virgin when we got together. I met him through his school friends and we had known each other for a few years socially before beginning a relationship. He was also very inexperienced and had only had one brief partner (a Thai girl whilst travelling in Thailand... obvs questions about that now!) prior. This was attractive to me, I was extremely sexually nervous and vulnerable and it felt incredibly safe. I had genuinely never believed anyone would ever want to have sex with me. Whilst I had had a couple of very very short relationships none had progressed to sex. So, whilst I never felt he had a particularly animalistic attraction to me I never questioned this - I was grateful really to be honest and also would have perhaps felts overwhelmed were that the case. He was, and remains in many ways kind, caring, loving.
Post getting engaged and booking the wedding, I can't remember exactly when he shared when we were drunk that he had something to tell me. This was that he liked wearing womens underwear - knickers/stockings. I reacted badly and was furious that something which he obviously had felt the need to keep hidden and was ashamed of, should come out at this point. He'd wanted me to wear stockings before, now it was both of us. I have been trying to build my timeline as suggested but memory from this long ago is hazy. I think post wedding but pre first pregnancy was when knickers came in, followed by bras and the smell of lipstick and perhaps nail varnish (hazy) and I think at this point the introduction of wanting to wear dresses as a precursor to sex. I had already been uncomfortable with the lingerie and I drew a line at the dresses. It was brought up again and again and eventually I relented.
After the first child came the suggestion of wanting to do full makeup as part of pre-sex routine. What a bloody palaver I thought and I also found it extremely unarousing. But again I kept thinking, what is the harm and it makes him happy. Everything else in our marriage is good. It became more and more prevalent, then wigs and heels were suggested. I set a red line on wigs. It kept being mentioned. I said 'give me time and I'll get there, I always get there in the end don't I?'. At times it was 'well how much time do you need?!' The order of escalation is difficult to fully recall but as time went by I found myself being chastised for not being 'into it enough', for not wanting to sit and watch him transform 'which would really turn me on', having to call him a naughty girl etc and spanking with a paddle through which I did take my anger at times and he would respond with 'i think you're enjoying this'. Wanking him off with my feet in stockings. Sex stopped sometime ago as I could only engage my giving him hand jobs where I could stare into the distance waiting for it all to end.
I now see that boundaries were repeatedly set and broken, my lack of experience and tolerant attitudes capitalised on. I asserted that I was just a prop and it could be anyone involved before I came on here and realised that was a thing. I cried at the emptiness. It continued. I was never forced to do anything and it was not frequent due to my lack of enthusiasm. However, I was emotionally coerced here also. Moody, sulky, he needed 'sorting out'. I complied because it was easier than having to put up with his sulking and disproportionate shouting at the kids.
I repeatedly asked over the last few years if this was more and I was told no, its just a sexual thing. Then 2020 lockdown he starts dressing in 'office wear' whilst working at home when the kids had gone back to school. He couldn't understand why this was an escalation. It really started to break me.
We talked about it a bit, late 21 did an en femme shopping trip. Again me showing support and tolerance despite my unhappiness. I decided for his 40th in 2022 I would give him the best gift I could and asked if he wanted to go away somewhere for the weekend entirely en femme to try it out for real and we went to Brighton. Lo and behold, August 22 - he comes out to family and friends. We take the kids to Pride on the Saturday and told them and immediate family the following day.
My parents are supportive but horrified. I tried to be the brave supportive wife but it started to take its toll. I decided to look up the process for the GRC and saw the spousal exit clause and realised I would need to at some point actively say yes to this. And that was it. I searched for you and found the community I have needed. I have told very close friends and parents over the last couple of weeks (who I have only recently been allowed to share any of this with) that at the right time, I will leave. But I am paralysed. We are in a purge at the moment, he knows I have said I will not do anything sexual again, I think he hopes it will change - he's doing his whole dressing thing and seems generally happy but highly resentful that Im not 'trying hard' enough to keep a romantic connection. I have also turned online sleuth and found a particular period throughout 2021 where he had been liking some very explicit transsexual content online and commenting. This has been the real game changer. Ok if thats what you are into then 'romance' doesn't exist mate.
Im not letting on just yet though as Im almost hoping he will start that up again so I can discover in real time and LTB. My kids are doing ok, but the elder two have expressed confusion and discomfort. He hasn't tried to speak to them about how they are feeling at all. He is a great Dad in many other ways, but I don't think he wants to face that this could damage them and has also swallowed rhetoric that it won't. Im terrified of harming them and as it stands things are ok, it would feel I was blowing up their world for no good reason.
Sorry for the length but thank you for listening.
And thanks for being here and for pioneering this support. I, like you all, was alone until very recently and finding you and your stories has really giving me an impetus to begin to change mine.

Also to say that whilst it feels to me like a purge in terms of the sex, I appreciate he is probably getting that on OnlyFans, I just can't catch him! And it is very much not a purge in that he has grown his hair, dyed it blonde and dresses entirely en femme at all times. I just mean that whilst I am quietly watching my life slip away unhappily, there isn't anything particularly 'out of order' happening. At this point, bar the potential impact on the children, I couldn't give a s**t that he is transitioning as I do not love him anymore. So my staying currently is really only because of the children, and some cowardice.

Please be careful (1) for you (transsexuals can turn violent without warning, as mine did) and (2) for your children. I was advised by a consultant psychiatrist to distance myself from my trans then-H. She said that this was both for myself and for the children. I would have done so anyway because of the torture he inflicted on me and the confusion which he tried to cause in our children.
He had walked out on us, just walking out of the house, 2 years before, in 2006. So he made the decision for us. I did not see him again for 15 months, and after the next encounter he falsely pressed a charge for "common assault" with the local police. For the first and last time in my life in my confusion I crumbled and meekly accepted a Caution when it was actually HIM who attacked ME.
You have described your H's progressive narcissistic obsession, overcoming boundaries and oblivious to all the harm he causes to you. Narcissists are extremely destructive people. In fact they can become psychopaths, taking pleasure in causing pain. That was certainly my experience.
As you have read in other accounts by TWs and in our advice: plan your exit carefully. Based on my experience I would recomment that you never let your AGP H have any contact with the children unless he is supervised by an adult whom you both know and respect. I insisted on this because of my H's manipulative behaviour with our kids. A few years later, when he had refused to ever visit them, my children recognised how weak, infantile, mean and self-obsessed he was. He never did anything for them, bought anything they liked or asked questions about their lives. HE was "the child". This is impossible! Let him stew in his own juice.
Amusing footnote: after about 10 years on estrogen the effect on my AGP H's metabolism started to wear off and his prostate, which had caused him problems during our marriage, became enlarged once again. He was finally confronted with an unavoidable truth: he couldn't pee! The operation to try to free up his urethra failed and he became incontinent. He was found dead at the foot of an open window. I believe that he committed suicide. We only learned about all this in November 2022, 16 years after he left us.
Please plan your departure. Get as much information about his financial affairs as possible, as you would for any divorce. This is going to be horrible, but afterwards you will start to feel better. YOU need to keep your sanity while he goes further into his own insanity.
Good luck and big hugs.

I think I've said to you before @Scientistranswidow that telling women to not "allow" contact between their children and their father is unhelpful. You have to let women be their own best judges of that based on their own knowledge and circumstances.

Hi @margaretatwoodslefteyebrow and welcome aboard. Your story is very familiar. The main thing I would say at this stage is that if/ when you leave, it won't be you that ruins anything for your children, it's him that has done this. You don't need to feel any guilt.

You need to look after your own mental health because if you go down the whole ship goes down.

Have you told any of your family that you want to leave or do they still think you're supportive?

@TinselAngel Please re-read carefully. I didn't say to MargaretAtwoodLE "do not allow contact". I said: "Make sure that a trusted individual is there as a witness and to monitor the interaction". Obviously it is not my place to tell anyone what to do or not do.
Children are extremely vulnerable to a parent with a very serious mental disorder.
AGPs are their own worst enemies provided that we keep calm and carry on looking after the children closely.

Welcome Margaret. I don't think you need a 'game changer' with that history. You may need time to decide what you want to do, and time to plan, sort out money etc. But you can set your own limit on what you will tolerate. Re. not talking to children, my child recently noted what a 'coward' my ex was when he failed entirely to talk to his kids about what he was doing, barely a word. Your husband has been working towards this for years and probably doesn't think he needs to explain, deal with anyone minding or being uncomfortable, or apologize. It's all about him right now. You need to work out whether you have reached your limit, and if so consider your options, or whether you are willing to stay. This is one of the most transparently escalating stories we've heard on here. But don't stay for the sake of your kids. Mine told me when older how relieved they are now that I refused to continue, as it protected them from a lot of bad behaviour, enabled our household to focus on them as priority, and spared them some of the excesses and selfishness that gave them so much pain. You need to do what's best for you four. Sadly he is already entirely preoccupied with himself.

Welcome @margaretatwoodslefteyebrow

I’m not a trans widow, just a supporter.
Posting to say I read every word of your story and I’m son glad you’ve found your fellow widows and fell less isolated.

Also Margaret there is nothing to stop you talking with your kids about how they feel and checking in. It's difficult as women in this position end up compensating where the men avoid this responsibility but your kids clearly come first for you, so I would be gently checking out how they feel. It drove me nuts that I had to do 100% of that care and nurture, but it may help you work out if your assumptions are correct.

Thanks so much for your responses.
@Scientistranswidow thank you for your note of caution. Whilst I appreciate there are clearly signs of narcissism in his behaviour, like all mental health issues there is a scale and currently I wouldn't be concerned about violence. The thing that could potentially trigger a level of irrational response would likely be telling him we were over I think. Whilst when we argue his position is very narcissistic he has never been particularly insulting or abusive. I do recognise this could change at anytime, but at the moment I do not have any concerns about him as a father beyond his lack of engagement on this specific topic. Were his behaviour to begin to change and there to be further outright manipulation I would certainly move against him in this regard. At the moment, I am seeking to keep a co-parenting relationship. There isn't any nefarious behaviour on his part with regards to dressing etc - it is just normal (if not particularly well put together) womens clothes and our parenting to date has been largely well balanced in the household. To be honest - I think he desperately wishes that he wasn't like this and whilst we have been victims of bearding his life, I also do think he sincerely wants a normal life and would seek to maintain as much of that as possible. This is why me wanting to leave would be the triggering event for a change in behaviour. As long as any sexual activity is kept away from my kids I have no reason to scupper what their relationship presently and currently I have no reason to doubt that would be the case although will keep watch.
@TinselAngel I have in the last couple of weeks made it known to my parents, who live just down the road and my 3 closest friends. If absolutely required I could potentially bolt to all bar one of their homes as they would have room for us (temporarily), so I do have emergency refuge if it were required. Only my parents would be close enough for the kids normal routine, but it is also helpful to know there are other people I can go to stay with just for a couple of days who both have kids my kids know where we could get away. I am doing this this weekend in fact so I can do some more talking and the kids get some space (not that this is overtly needed but hopefully is helpful to them). I am extremely lucky in that my parents could and would assist financially, they feel extremely betrayed by him and are worried about the impact on the children. If needed they could help me buy him out of the house - however I would prefer somewhere smaller that I would find it easier to stay on top of and with a smaller mortgage obviously (not that its a palace you understand but it is a lot of work I don't need).

@socialworker222 yes I am starting to make a few financial plans. Our mortgage is joint and 50/50 on the deeds. There is already some extra of my parents money in the equity protected by trust deed so I would come out on top from selling. One of the reasons I'm biding my time is because there are a few things which we have both saved money for to do on the house and it wouldn't really be ready to sell until those are complete which should be by the end of this year/early next year. However, if things were to deteriorate quickly at least I know my enhanced equity share is safe even if we would need to compromise on the sale price. This would also run down the joint savings and putting it into the house, decreasing any risk of him making off with/ splurging the money as that particular account is his name. Its not a lot, but I have sight of it and it is earmarked for projects. If he is spending money on his 'hobby' it is his own outside of that and our joint account.
We both work full time in professional roles in pretty equitable salaries so I know I can support myself if need be. I am lucky not to be at huge risk in this regard versus others in my position. I have a little credit card/overdraft debt, some of which is my own fault for not being careful and this has changed over the last few months so I am slowly clearing it. In the meantime I've got a separate account he isn't aware of which I am siphoning off small bits of money to with an auto-save alongside doing online surveys etc. I know I should clear the debt first but it isn't a lot and there's something comforting knowing that it there is something else building. Its just a couple of hundred right now, but I've just in the last couple of weeks built a basic website to try and get a feminist/literary t-shirt business going on the side and anything I make would siphon into my escape fund (again, he's not aware). It won't be easy to find the time to do what I need to do to get traffic to it alongside everything else but if I could make just a little from that as a separate income it would help bolster my funds.
In terms of the kids - I agree, that is what I have been doing over the last couple of months. Also as soon as he decided to come out I went to see our wonderful Inclusion and Welfare Officer at school and explained what was happening. I hadn't had cause to update her until a couple of weeks ago. Initially the kids were very much 'yeah its fine' but I have gently been able to get a truer picture. My son (9) finds the eyeshadow creepy, doesn't like seeing him put on foundation, says it all 'doesn't feel right, its weird' and is very worried about his friends finding out. My elder daughter (7) says 'she thinks his make up skills are cool and its fun when he does my makeup, but its a bit weird he wears it every day and wears lipstick every day because you're a girl and you don't do that'. She also hates his new hair and shared that she had a real panic after swimming when he had just had it done and she couldn't find him, she thought the person shouting to her was a stranger, she hadn't recognised him and it was like he had disappeared. So I went back into school and they are now having intervention each week for chats and snacks :) Very luck in that our Inclusion Officer is trained in trauma therapy and is very experienced. She has been a great support to me too. I'm heavily involved with school however, so this all feels very public and exposing for me. My husband has very little to do with other parents or the school, whilst now I feel increasingly like everyone is looking at me and gossiping about my relationship. He has no sympathy with this and says I am just 'embarrassed by him'.
My son would be fine if we left, my elder daughter would struggle but would be ok. Its my 5 year old girl that is the one closes to her Dad and who I can't really get insight from at the moment that is troubling me. She will never remember her Dad as he was and this will surely have a huge impact, but she would also be most affected by a split.

Happy for one and all to tell me what I am missing and give further advice. My heart is broken from the many stories of outrageous abuse to some of you and your children. I guess I feel like I'm so used to it all now, the creep and conditioning that my only concern is if things escalate with regards to me and the children and at this moment we are muddling along ok.

Hi, I just wanted to say very best wishes to transwidows here and I do hope that you are alright.
By way of background, I am trying to understand a relationship I had years ago.

Also I wonder whether there is a high proportion of transwomen being virgins when they marry or enter into long term relationships, as men.

The young man I went out with was a virgin. I ask because I think that he was up to something.

Was pretty much the case for me.

I would prefer somewhere smaller that I would find it easier to stay on top of and with a smaller mortgage

I've never regretted not trying to hang onto the family home. A change was much better.

You sound like you're doing really well and are on top of things margaret, well done

First paragraph was supposed to be a quote 🙄

Thanks @TinselAngel but it doesn't feel that way. My situation is nowhere as oppressive or damaging as many I have read and I know that. However, I may talk a good game but I am often struggling to hold it together. I'm not ready to go and I feel guilty that my betrayal is just as bad as his with me nosing all over twitter and sitting on information, especially when that is all from some time ago. I'm talking to close people about leaving him and that feels so uncomfortable to be so dishonest in my day to day with him and the kids. I'm tying myself in knots really. Things are settled and not unpleasant at the moment so I feel awful about how I am feeling. I wish I had found it sooner in a way when things were worse before he came out.

You shouldn't feel guilty, you're doing the best that you can and telling him and your kids as much as it's appropriate to.

Have you thought about seeing your Doctor? I needed a hefty dose of anti depressants to get through the whole thing.

Also don't underestimate what you're going through. Granted you may not be having the sexual abuse that many women experience but your loss is still devastating.