Trans Widows Escape Committee 5: And so it continues...

[TinselAngel]

Welcome to thread 5. A virtual prize for anyone who can guess the geeky sci fi reference in the thread title.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

In four years we have gone from starting the first thread, to launching a website, to be invited to give evidence to a government inquiry, which is pretty spectacular when you think about it.

Thanks to all the women who have told their stories and particularly to those who have stuck around to help others. Thanks also to @socialworker222 who remains nice cop, to my stern cop.

Do say hello to start the thread off!

Down with the kids Tinsel 😀

Thought I'd join this thread and hopefully find support and advice having just found out a few weeks ago that my 70 year old husband (partner of 19 years & married for 7) cross dresses privately and on the odd occasion (apparently before we got together 19 years ago) has visited make up places you can apparently go to for a makeover and wardrobe session. The cross dressing is definitely not something I want to be involved with as far as my instinctive preferred natural choice of a husband's behaviour goes (would definitely not have been in this relationship if I'd known about this from the early days but would have been perfectly happy to have continued as a loving, supportive platonic friend). So really struggling to get my head around living in the same house and sharing a bed with a man who thinks he's a women within (he said this goes back to as early as he can remember, at least to aged 4). I'm mid 50s, so younger than my husband.

In trying to understand this all I watched a very moving film on Youtube about a sweet 7 year old Sasha who was born with a boy's body but most definitely felt themselves to be a girl and found myself weeping - so I really recognise the pain from the man's point of view when there are gender dysphoria issues, but I just can't see how I can compromise and carry on in this marriage when I've never had any feelings in my life that I'd want to have a relationship with a woman myself. He says he's definitely not gay and loves me for 'myself' not for my gender. Not sure that's a receipt for healthy rounded fullfilling relationship in my eyes...

He most definitely doesn't want us to part but I think I'm going to have to at some point in there years ahead for my own sanity - truth be told things have felt 'just not quite right' for years. He also doesn't want anyone else to know, especially our two sons aged 14 and 15. He's a very self-contained, private person and I would never want to expose this if he doesn't want that, if only for fear of what he might do and for fear of weakening his good relationship with the boys. I know some women seem to come to terms with having a cross dressing husband (and even thrive in their new found female friend around the house!) but I feel uneasy - not least that he knew this when we got together and never told me. Apparently he did tell his ex-wife before they married who apparently accepted it, but I strongly feel that I don't even want to see him with any women's stuff on at any point whilst I'm his wife. My gut tells me that I want to leave but don't know that is possible currently right now as things would be very difficult financially and impinge massively on the boys. Has anyone experienced living under the same roof under these circumstance, knowing that they do not want their partner to even touch them and having to keep a huge secret from friends and family?

Hi Brook70
In my case the house was mine, so although we had severe financial insecurity I was able to keep a roof over our heads. That made it possible for me to end the relationship with my ex, who was a secret cross dresser.
Keeping his secret has affected my relationships with people we used to know. They'd ask me why I ended things, I should have had an answer ready because I looked like I was being evasive. He presented himself as a victim, and even after people realised it wasn't true, old friendships didn't recover.
I had to walk away from everything and make a fresh start which included moving house. for me, it was worth it despite the financial hit.

You say your husband is self contained and private; I wonder if he is actually secretive and self centered. Staying with him and keeping silent will come with a price. If you do it, then have your exit strategy (including finances) in place for when your youngest is old enough.

Brook70,
Your reaction sounds a lot like mine in the beginning: worried about him, oriented toward and sympathetic with his position, on board with keeping his secret (aka "not outing him").
Everything in this list does nothing other than continue to enable the status quo in which he benefits and you suffer. Your silence means he never has to experience the consequences for his actions or his cockamamie idea he is "a woman in a man's body." It means he never has to confront his gender dysphoria, only indulge it through fantasy. Your sympathy means that now that you know (did you discover, did he disclose, or did he "accidentally" leave clues?) he will continue to manipulate you into accepting more and more.

He's already begun the manipulative gaslighting by telling you that he loves you regardless of your "gender" because that's what he wants from you. But sex and sexuality are part and parcel of why we love someone. I loved my husband because of the kind of man I thought he was. His maleness was integral to my feelings for him.

I lived with my now-ex for three years after his declaration that he was "a woman in a man's body" and his revelation that he'd been cross-dressing in private (including in my clothing). For about half that time I was trying to accommodate him and decide whether I could stay. It is my experience that "accommodation" was nothing other than a process of self-erasure that opened me up for further manipulation.

I second "The Inebriati", who suggests that your husband is less "'private and self-contained'" than "'secretive and self-centered'". Please listen to your gut and spend your time and effort devising a way out, rather than youtube videos that undermine your own gut feelings.

@Thelnebriati and @WalkedAway

Thank you both for very sensible advice based on your own experiences. I'm taking a strength from hearing from others and am pretty clear that it's only a matter of time until I extricate myself from this totally unexpected surreal position I find myself in. You asked how I found out...through an online order of a woman's wig. I assumed there was a simple explanation and he then told me what it was all really about. I've been through a roller coaster of thoughts and emotions since...not least how me keeping stum is going to make relationships with friends and family really compromised. He's on best behaviour right now but I feel I'm sharing a house with a stranger...

It is indeed surreal. Down the rabbit hole, through the looking glass, funhouse mirror surreal.

You are absolutely right that keeping stum will compromise relationships. I lived in his closet for eighteen months, during which time I became more and more isolated from friends and family, and felt as if I were walking around under a bell jar. Every interaction with friends, colleagues, and other relatives felt false, because I had to hide the way I felt and not tell them what was going on in my life.

Our isolation works to their advantage, because it closes off avenues through which we might get support for our feelings, response, and gut instincts, and leaves us more vulnerable to their manipulations.

Unfortunately, now that you know, your husband will likely push harder for more time indulging his fantasy, and if our collective experience is any guide, nor will he respect any boundaries you put in place.

You feel the way you do, as if he's a stranger, because he is, not just as he's become, but as you've known him, when he was hiding his secret life.

Has anyone experienced living under the same roof under these circumstance, knowing that they do not want their partner to even touch them and having to keep a huge secret from friends and family?

Welcome Brook70. I think we all go through this stage.

What you have to realise is that now you know about the cross dressing, he has if not your support, at least you to confide in, whereas because you have to keep it secret, you have nobody.

Additionally, you now know that he has lied to you for all the time that you have known him. The most corrosive thing for me was the loss of trust and the terrible anxiety that this caused.

There will be much more that you still don't know about. Prepare for it to be revealed gradually.

Just wondering if any of you have told your children and if so at what age and what their reactions were? I find myself weighing up the cost of the deception about why things might be frosty at home with how they would process this information if it was handled sensitively...

I think most of us had to tell our children at the point at which we left their Dad.

I think you're asking the wrong question. It won't be you telling them that will cause any damage, it's him doing it that's caused the damage. How realistic is it to lie to them for the rest of their lives? He's already got you taking responsibility for a problem that he has caused.

I'm not saying you've got to rush into telling them, but if he escalates (which is likely) or if you leave him, you're probably going to have to.

if it was handled sensitively.
What does this look like to you and what compromises would it involve you making?

I hope I don't sound harsh, but a dose a realism is the kindest thing x

My situation was different as I was only with my cross dressing partner for four years and he was honest with me about it from about six months into our relationship. He begged me not to tell anyone and promised it was just clothes and it didn't make him any less of a man.

I kept his secret for three years, during which time he regularly pushed my boundaries further and further. This was before the transwidows threads began and I wasn't able to find anyone who understood or talk to anyone in real life.

After three years of keeping shtum, he decided he was ready to come out and begin his transition. Without discussing it with me he began telling all his friends and family, and telling them that I was happy with the situation. I went from desperately wanting someone to talk to, to trying to hide it from my friends and family because I still had no idea how I felt about it all. Six months later I finally ended the relationship. Six years on, I still can't imagine ever wanting to be with another man.

I was so glad to eventually find these threads and see that I wasn't alone. Although I've only posted here once, under a different username, I've been lurking for years and it helps.

My advice to anyone who is still in the thick of it - talk to someone. Whether it's here, where so many others have been through similar circumstances, or a close friend or family member. Keeping the secret will only make it harder.

Thanks to all the other ladies who have shared their experiences, you've helped me more than you know.

@TinselAngel

What does this look like to you and what compromises would it involve you making?

At this point in time I'm still not understanding exactly why my husband feels the need to cross dress: I'm not really sure in my own mind yet if I think this is something you are really born with (I suspect this is the case but haven't had a chance to do a bit of research to learn more) or which develops as a result of an early experience etc... I can also understand how he ended up not telling me about this (not that I think that's right) given his age and the added stigma over this type of thing from the era when he grew up. So handling this sensitively in terms of telling the children (if I decided this was the right thing to do) would involve making sure they were old enough, probably telling them that some people are just born with these urges and that none of it detracts from his love for them. I really can't see a situation where he suddenly demands doing this in front of anyone seeing as he seems to have pretty much kept it as a totally private thing for all these years...but reading these posts I am now pre-warned about the possibility of things escalating. In many ways for me, if he felt able to tell some of our closer friends things would be easier in that they would at least understand me not wanting to hang around in a marriage which didn't reflect my own wiring and needs...

I know that you want to believe in "born this way" and some people do believe that, despite evidence to the contrary. We don't though.

Please read up about autogynephila, you can find resources on the Trans Widows Voices website.

www.transwidowsvoices.org/useful-resources

Nobody is born with a fetish.

If you want to tell your story on the TWV website do get in touch

It occurs to me that when people judge you and say you should stay with your AGP partner, you should ask them if they would expect a man to call himself gay and be penetrated by his wife if SHE decided she were a man? The answer will always be no, because expecting a woman to sacrifice her life and joy for a man is simply sexism and they would never ask for a man to sacrifice themselves this way. I think you need to ask that to every time someone judges you!

Hello ladies,
I don't know whether you know about the petition from Sex-Matters.org (Maya Forstater) which is a step in the right direction: "Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex" - petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243.
The Government must exercise its power under s.23 of the Gender Recognition Act to modify the operation of the Equality Act 2010 by specifying the terms sex, male, female, man & woman, in the operation of that law, mean biological sex and not "sex as modified by a Gender Recognition Certificate".
The Equality Act 2010 covers nine separate protected characteristics, including “Sex” & “Gender Reassignment”. This protects people against sex discrimination and discrimination because a person is transgender.

There has been much confusion about how the Equality Act and GRA interact. This has caused uncertainty and conflict for women, transgender people, and service providers. The GRA includes a provision to amend other laws to make it clear whether a GRC changes the definition of sex for that law.
Please sign and forward to anyone who is sympathetic. The long term goal is the repeal of the GRA which introduced and legitimizes this insane idea.

There is a second petition for those with children of school age: "Remove references to 'gender identity' from relationships education guidance": petition.parliament.uk/petitions/618970 This insidious ideology must be removed, and this demand is an important step in schools.
Since 2020 the DfE has published guidance for relationships and sex education. This says "Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way". Gender identity is a social construct, and not recognised in law.
There's no evidence that we're born with a ‘gender identity’, and we do not believe that schools should be teaching children about this concept. We also believe that teaching school children about gender identity is inconsistent with the Education Act (section 406), which prohibits 'political indoctrination'. The Government should remove all references to 'gender identity' from guidance on relationships and sex education.
Thank you very much for your help.

Perhaps it's just my device but the link in @Scientistranswidow post wasn't working. If you wish to sign the petition (you do) the following should take you to MN page with a link to it. Don't forget to share it.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex

@IcakethereforeIam Thank you!

Previous thread here

Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4668404-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex

@Brook70 in my case I am dealing with an AGP and had zero clue for the 1st 3 years that he had any cross dressing desire. It wasn't until I caught him in my things. Otherwise I have no idea how long I would have been in the dark. I still didn't imagine he'd go further than privately wanting to have his alone time to do this. It kept escalating and kept pushing my boundaries that at the time I didn't have the skill set to make known more clearly and push past the socialization to "be nice and play along with what the man wants". The claims vary depending on who he speaks with. Sometimes he says he had no idea...sometimes he says he knew at five...sometimes he had a name picked out for a decade and that is when it started...sometimes it only started a few years ago. It is all over the map as are all the personality traits of the person I knew the 1st 3 years.

@SeasideM thanks for sharing your experience. I could yet be proved wrong but I have faith in my husband that things aren't going to escalate and also that he won't push my boundaries in involving me directly in any of this. Increasingly however, now the shock of discovering he cross dresses has worn off, for me (it's clear from posts here that this isn't the same for all women) it's not something that I can simply compartmentalise on and just resume normal married life. It seems to me I have the choice of keeping the peace and accepting a 'platonic' married life from here on, or I try and leave the marriage and start a new life. I actually feel more confident in preserving a loving friendship with my husband if we didn't keep up the pretence or hope that I'll learn to accept this in my marriage.

@Brook70 You are in a very difficult situation. It is very likely that he will keep coming back to cross-dressing and pushing your boundaries because it is a fetish, like the addictive consumption of pornography. The behaviour becomes more and more uncontrolled in private if you are "conspirator" with him. Possibly in public too. Read the awful accounts of Shannon Thrace and Christina Benvenuto. If you have children you will have to consider carefully what financial provision you want for them from your H. Beware that your transsexual H will try to behave "as a sibling" to your children, because he is immature. If you have found your way to this thread, read as much as you want or can bear and pick what is useful to you.
You have my deepest condolescences for the marriage which he just crashed.

@Scientistranswidow Thanks for your reply. I'm trying to read up as much as I can about this currently - other people's stories are really helpful. At the end of the day I know I'm not going to be the type of woman who is able to build a 'new' marriage with the same person but knowing her husband feels himself to be a female as many females seem able to do. I have so many gay friends (no transsexual friends I'm aware of) with whom I'm totally comfortable - I just clearly need the clarity of my husband being and feeling himself to be male! Where do I find those accounts you mentioned please?