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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

University staff given list of banned 'microinsults' they cannot say to trans people

545 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 01/05/2021 12:34

From the Telegraph. the last para make you want to weep -

A Newcastle University spokesman said: "We want our campus to be a welcoming and safe place for everyone who studies, works or visits here, regardless of gender, race, class, age or disability."

But it would seem they are not bothered about making people feel welcome regardless of sex, as they don't even mention it.

OP posts:
jellyfrizz · 01/05/2021 18:47

Insistence on gender binary or gender immutability, e.g. “you’re either a man or a woman”, “you can’t change sex”

Always with the conflating sex and gender!

Wouldn't the 'gender binary' be 'you are either trans or cis'. Which is very much insisted upon by rainbow lanyard wearers.

Chrysanthemum5 · 01/05/2021 18:49

@HamsterV2 not sure really but Edinburgh did have Ada Wells as the LGBTQI++ officer who campaigned for women who wouldn't sleep with trans women (or who believed women don't have penises) to be expelled from the university.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 01/05/2021 18:49

I wonder how far back in human history this kind of totalitarianism goes. Off the top of my head, I can think of lots of examples in the 20th century: Stalinism, 1984 (OK, it's fictional, but my god, the prescience Orwell displayed is mindboggling now), McCarthyism, Chinese Cultural Revolution, Pol Pot.

Prior to that, though, there are lots of examples of religions cracking down on heresy with brutal punishments designed to make examples of a few unfortunate people, all designed to create a climate of fear where others dared not say openly what they were thinking. The Name of the Rose covered this, and that was set in the 1300s.

Cults: a few months ago I saw a documentary about Jim Jones and the massacre in his Jonestown camp in Guyana which was truly chilling. He and his acolytes attempted to control what his followers said, did and thought. Far from unique in this.

GreyhoundG1rl · 01/05/2021 18:49

[quote Chrysanthemum5]@Erikrie presumably yes - step in as a barrier. I remember at GC evens which TRAs were picketing that women on the TRA side were asked to physically stand in front of the trans women to protect them [/quote]
Wow!

Nonmaquillee · 01/05/2021 18:49

How can you "engage in avoidant behaviour"? Isn't this a contradiction?

As for rainbow lanyards and feeling "safe".... PMSL. How do these people cope outside this pampered environment?

HamsterV2 · 01/05/2021 18:53

but Edinburgh did have Ada Wells as the LGBTQI++ officer

Didn't Ada Wells "resign" about 5 years ago though? 2015/16 ish? Iirc Ada was also the charmer that refered to women as "C*ntscum"

Chrysanthemum5 · 01/05/2021 18:53

Yes Ada had to resign after posting that Ada hoped lots of police died

Chrysanthemum5 · 01/05/2021 18:55

I think Ada and attack on Julie bindel etc show that there is a strong TRA contingent at Edinburgh. Apparently the staff pride network are also very TRA

GreyhoundG1rl · 01/05/2021 18:56

Ada was also the charmer that refered to women as "C ntscum"
Dear oh dear. Did that not come under the umbrella of hate speech?
Stupid question...

GreyhoundG1rl · 01/05/2021 18:57

@Chrysanthemum5

Yes Ada had to resign after posting that Ada hoped lots of police died
Ada needs serious therapy
theThreeofWeevils · 01/05/2021 18:57

A not wholly frivolous thought has struck me. Are lanyards not, in and of themselves, hazardous? Quite easy to grab someone by the lanyard and use it to choke them, I would have thought.
Might be grounds for declining to wear one.

AlfonsoTheTerrible · 01/05/2021 19:00

Wasn't Magdalen Berns kicked out of the Lesbian Society at Edinburgh University?

Erikrie · 01/05/2021 19:00

yes - step in as a barrier. I remember at GC evens which TRAs were picketing that women on the TRA side were asked to physically stand in front of the trans women to protect them

I thought something like this had happened before. I wouldn't be much of a barrier. It would buy the person I was shielding about 3 seconds time before the 'perp' got to them. Not that I would choose to be someone's barrier anyway. Apart from my kids. I'd be their barrier.

HamsterV2 · 01/05/2021 19:01

A not wholly frivolous thought has struck me. Are lanyards not, in and of themselves, hazardous? Quite easy to grab someone by the lanyard and use it to choke them, I would have thought.Might be grounds for declining to wear one.

For health and safety, a lot of lanyards these days have self-release clips at the back these days to stop people choking for that very reason.

NecessaryScene1 · 01/05/2021 19:08

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

Wasn't Magdalen Berns kicked out of the Lesbian Society at Edinburgh University?
Good point. Wikipedia:

In 2015, Berns expressed opposition to the Edinburgh University Students' Association "LGBT Liberation" group issuing a statement of support for the decision to exclude drag acts from participating in that year's Pride Glasgow event. In 2016, Berns was banned from the University of Edinburgh's Feminist Society for opposing the decriminalisation of sex work.

She .

theThreeofWeevils · 01/05/2021 19:13

Ah, thanks, Hamster. The ones I had in the Misc Stuff drawer here are quite old...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2021 19:15

am a 6ft 1 woman - nothing skinny about me. I went into the female toilets - did my business - and walked out into 3 men who were identifying as female.
All three were wearing gender neutral clothes and were displaying behaviours more commonly associated with what was previously known as females - think make up, talking about boys they fancied etc.

All three were over 5ft 10, well muscled and looked physically fit - they stood between me and the exit. They chose to block my exit, laugh when I asked them to move and asked if I felt threatened.

Yes - I fucking did - after the third request to move out of my way I pushed one out of my way. This was reported as anti trans aggression and I was expected to apologise to them ( I have not).

Solution - all toilets are now gender neutral and all my female colleagues hate going to the toilet.

This is also a University - not being able to take a pee and feel safe for risk of upsetting < 1 % of the population simply demonstrates how bloody mad the world has become.

Thanks I'm sorry it's so shit. This is undoubtedly creating a hostile environment for women and girls and in the workplace, which is possible grounds for harassment on the grounds of sex per the EA 2010.

This thread may interest you. A former MNer who is very clued up on HR, who I know IRL asked a QC she was working with if the presence of any male people in the women's toilets who were cross dressing as a sexual fetish (which is covered by many policies and Stonewall's definition as a manifestation of a trans identity) may constitute illegal harassment of women, and he thought it could.

The thread is also relevant as it covers these "microinsults" including women leaving the toilet when an MTF trans person entered.

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3520371-civil-service-trans-policy-what-can-i-do

This policy is clearly being put into practice as during my meeting today it was discussed that a Trans Woman was left hurt and embarrassed recently after a woman did an immediate u-turn out of the toilets when she saw them. It was stated as a gentle warning to others to consider trans feelings.

The woman's feelings were not considered at all, though I expect she has probably since been vilified in her local office!

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 01/05/2021 19:20

Since we're focusing on Edinburgh, might be time for another outing for this evergreen favourite - the Edinburgh Action for Trans Health Manifesto. I believe Ada Wells, mentioned above, was a key figure in drafting this.

edinburghath.tumblr.com/post/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

Following the centuries-long repression of trans lives at the hands of the state, the next stage in the UK government’s war of bureaucratic attrition is the recent publication of an NHS consultation that fails in every possible capacity, and a survey that gathers less data than we’ve already presented them. We call upon everyone fighting for the health of trans people to boycott this consultation & the survey, and reject its procedures & results in full. We encourage hostile participation in the form of direct submissions of demands that don’t react to the questions posed or restrict themselves to the scope imposed by the government.

We wholly reject the NHS’s attempt to codify the abuse, torment & traumatisation of trans people under the guise of ‘healthcare’. We demand accountability for the historic & present abuse of power that the NHS has encouraged glorified psychiatrists to carry out. You do not own our bodies, you cannot control our lives, and you will not prevent our needs being met. We will not tolerate compromise.

The following living document is our vision for trans futures. We do not consider that our work will ever be complete, there will always be greater things on the horizon. As such, this manifesto is not final, but an open draft which will evolve as we do. This is our call to action. We will fight anyone who stands in the way of universal liberation. This is war, and we will win.

TRANS HEALTH MANIFESTO

Trans health is bodily autonomy. We will express our needs, and they will be met. We will change our bodies however we want. We will have universally accessible and freely available hormones & blockers, surgical procedures, and any other relevant treatments and therapies. We will end the medical gatekeeping of our bodies. We will have full, historical accountability for the abuses perpetuated against us in the name of 'healthcare’. We will see reparations for these crimes, and the crimes committed against others in our names.

We are not too ill, too disabled, too anxious, too depressed, too psychotic, too Mad, too foreign, too young, too old, too fat, too thin, too poor, or too queer to make decisions about our bodies and our futures. We are all self-medicating. Our agency will be recognised. We each labour far harder for the health of ourselves and those around us than any doctor ever has, and we will continue build supportive communities on principles of mutual aid.

We deny the separation of bodies, minds, and selves - a violence against any part of us is a violence against all of us. We believe that the epidemic of chronic conditions in our communities is a consequence of the war of attrition waged against us over centuries. We do not exist in isolation, and it is essential to our healthcare that we are all healing together, healing each other, and healing our world. We will heal the damage of borders and states, government and authority, capitalism and imperialism.

We recognise that the history of trans medicine is a history of colonial and fascist abuse. We see the history of eugenicist experimentation from Nazi concentration camps, to the colonial implentation of the West’s regime of the gender binary, to virginity tests for South Asian and other Women of Colour in the UK in the 1970s; from the sterilisation & birth control trials forced on the women of Puerto Rico, to the thousands of Black and brown people who have died on NHS psychiatric wards; from the denial of the reproductive rights of disabled people, to the denial of access to abortions to people in the North of Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, past and present. We see the continued manifestation of eugenicist medicine in the denial of our bodily autonomy as trans people today: from coercive surgeries on intersex infants, to forced sterilisation in parts of europe, policing of and misinformation regarding our sexual reproduction, to gatekeeping of surgeries and medicines.

Our fight for bodily autonomy cannot be separated from our fight for reproductive justice. The demand to do what we want with our bodies is necessarily a demand for free and accessible abortions, for the decriminalisation of sex work, and for universal self-determination. We fight for an end to borders, prisons and police. We recognise that we do not exist independently of our environment, and so our fight for self-determination and health is a fight for climate justice, too. We are not separate from our environment, health is unattainable while the water is poisoned and the land is scorched.

There will be no clinics, and no authorities. We will conduct our own research, and experiment with our own bodies. We will heal and grow together. We will accumulate knowledge and share it freely and accessibly. We demand nothing less than the total abolition of the clinic, of psychiatry, and of the medical-industrial complex. We demand an end to capitalist & colonialist “medicine”.

We demand hormones & blockers are made available over-the-counter and by free prescription upon request. We need free, universal access to safe hormones & blockers at any age, the opportunity to decide our own doses, and universally accessible information on the safety & efficacy of different regimens. We are already taking hormones in this way, so this demand is simply that the danger of doing so is effectively mitigated.

We demand that all therapies that can be are made available at drop-ins, with self-referral for any therapy or procedure for which drop-in is unsuitable.

We demand anonymous blood tests, both postal & at drop-in endocrinology clinics, where we can seek the advice of a consultant if we wish.

We demand the freedom to alter our bodies without justification. We demand an end to all surgical prerequisites - nobody should have to prove life experience,health or have to be taking hormones in order to exercise bodily autonomy. We demand that these surgeries can be highly customised to meet our individual & unique needs. We demand the right to multiple surgeries, including reversal of previous surgeries if desired, so that we do not have to fear regret. We demand the free & timely provision of genital surgeries, additive & reductive chest surgeries, hysterectomies and orchiectomies, tracheal & vocal surgeries, facial surgeries, lipoplasty, contouring & microdermabrasion, surgical hair removal & transplantation, and any other possible procedure to meet our needs as we express them.

^We demand resources for hair removal anywhere on our bodies, and the option of local anesthetic during these procedures.
We demand voice coaching that does not coerce us to alter our voices in ways we do not express a need for, but respects our accents and our right to express ourselves however we desire.^

We demand access to counselling & and any other therapies we choose.

We demand the revocation of medical licenses from all gender clinic doctors & nurses, past and present.

We demand the power to hold abusers of medical & administrative power accountable for historical & present injustices.

We demand medical training to enable us to safely carry out medical procedures & research for each other, for anyone of us who wants to learn. We will enhance our collective knowledge, so that the means to understand our bodies is universally accessible. We demand to improve the quality of medications we take and procedures we undergo, to reduce negative side-effects in the long term, and to highlight our own experience and understanding of their effects on our bodies.

We demand research centres & libraries of knowledge, autonomously & horizontally organised by and for trans people, in which research subjects are equal participants in deciding the experiments conducted & the manner in which those experiments are carried out. We demand full funding for any research or projects undertaken by these collectives.

We demand mandatory education, written & taught entirely by trans people, at all educational stages, from nursery to adulthood. Trans kids have a need to understand themselves, in the context of their own bodies, lives & experiences. We must repair the damage done by section 28, the legacy of which is still causing harm to today’s children.

We demand material reparations for historical abuses against trans people, and for all people hurt by eugenicist medical practices and policies.

We demand an end to birth certificates and to legal gender. Gender records should be anonymised, and only ever recorded as part of equalities monitoring. Neither government, nor any institution, has any justification for keeping a register of trans people. Birth certificates are not just a violence against trans people, they are a material to the state’s oppression of “undocumented” immigrants and asylum seekers.

We demand good quality, accessible & safe homes for all; and demand adquate resources to trans and marginalised people to establish communes & housing co-operatives to schemes and projects.

We demand that trans people are immediately freed from police, military & government contracts without repercussions. We reject the system of blackmail that corporations and governments engage in, whereby trans people who can work are “rewarded” with slightly less mistreatment in exchange for the exploitation of our labour. We will not allow pinkwashing of the violence of capitalism, imperialism and the state.

We demand amnesty, recourse to public funds and indefinite right to remain for all trans, lesbian, gay and bisexual immigrants & asylum seekers. No one is illegal.

We demand immediate release & pardon for all trans prisoners.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2021 19:22

I think Ada and attack on Julie bindel etc show that there is a strong TRA contingent at Edinburgh. Apparently the staff pride network are also very TRA

Also the throat punch threatening TRA who was reported to the police (I posted a link to a Butterflies and Wheels blog post upthread) is from Edinburgh.

AgathaAllAlong · 01/05/2021 19:22

Can someone link to the article please?

AllThatisSolid · 01/05/2021 19:23

because students would not be expelled for saying "I wanted to be a boy when I was little". You are making up stuff and then get angry at it

But @CatherinaJTV university staff can be threatened by students, who can demand that staff "change their thinking" or be sacked they tried it with me

It's Orwellian.

GreyhoundG1rl · 01/05/2021 19:29

Of that lengthy list of demands (they even manage to sound like hostage takers)
We demand immediate release & pardon for all trans prisoners. is the most perplexing. Surely nobody thinks trans prisoners have been imprisoned for the crime of being trans?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2021 19:30

It's ludicrous, isn't it.

Nonmaquillee · 01/05/2021 19:32

That list of demands is just BONKERS.
It makes me think of a small child saying "I want....I want....."

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