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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Help explain non binary

386 replies

Educationneeded · 17/04/2021 17:09

Hi, thread was inspired by the other about coming out as GC. I have name changed as I’m not ready to be outed so just incase.

I am GC, although only have expressed my views to close friends and family. My younger sister is due to go up to high school in September and six months ago came out as non binary. We all believe this decision was heavily influenced by TikTok and the wokeness on there.

My parents don’t really understand. My Dad just rolls his eyes but my Mum wants to learn however doesn’t know much on the subject and has asked me to talk to my sister. I have no idea how to even approach the topic with her. Anyone have any guidance? Anything I can tell or show my Mum? I’ve read a lot on trans and women’s right but not much on non binary and don’t really know where to start with this minefield. I guess I’d like to educate myself too.

OP posts:
Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:18

@PheasantPlucker1

Shizuku Im confused about your position here.

You called the idea of believing one had a brain gender which you then confused with biological sex "disordered thinking", which I actually agree with. As usual, I cant keep up with the disordered conflation of sex and gender to even understand what that means.

So would you still affirm and validate this disordered thinking?

Did you see the "quotes"?
AssassinatedBeauty · 27/04/2021 18:21

I don't feel a damn thing when someone says that I am a woman. It is simply a true fact. I don't have any emotional feelings about it. Same as I don't have any feelings about my height, hair length, eye colour, number of kidneys or any other simple fact about me.

Now, if you asked me how do I feel about being a woman in UK society today, I'd have some feelings and emotions about that. Or if you asked me about how I feel being expected to perform at least some elements of femininity then I'd have some feelings about that. All related to social and cultural expectations placed on me because I am a woman.

It is simply wrong to state that I am a woman only because it is hard wired into my brain as this elusive idea of gender identity that means nothing whatsoever to me. I have never felt it, nor been aware of it in any way.

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PheasantPlucker1 · 27/04/2021 18:22

Shizuku what quotes?

You used the phrase "disordered thinking" so I was wondering what you actually meant by that.

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:23

@AssassinatedBeauty

I don't feel a damn thing when someone says that I am a woman. It is simply a true fact. I don't have any emotional feelings about it. Same as I don't have any feelings about my height, hair length, eye colour, number of kidneys or any other simple fact about me.

Now, if you asked me how do I feel about being a woman in UK society today, I'd have some feelings and emotions about that. Or if you asked me about how I feel being expected to perform at least some elements of femininity then I'd have some feelings about that. All related to social and cultural expectations placed on me because I am a woman.

It is simply wrong to state that I am a woman only because it is hard wired into my brain as this elusive idea of gender identity that means nothing whatsoever to me. I have never felt it, nor been aware of it in any way.

"I don't feel a damn thing when someone says that I am a woman. It is simply a true fact. I don't have any emotional feelings about it."

Right - and that's because you have a female gender identity. If you didn't, you'd have a whole lot of feelings about it.

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:24

@PheasantPlucker1

Shizuku what quotes?

You used the phrase "disordered thinking" so I was wondering what you actually meant by that.

I quoted the phrase "disordered thinking". Scroll up.
PheasantPlucker1 · 27/04/2021 18:24

Shizuku Dont forget women!

Transwomen amd ciswomen are a tiny minority of the population, its women who are most at risk of rape and pregnancy.

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:25

@GNCQ

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.
You are actually speaking to a woman who has been through a severe sexual assault. The details of which I will not be sharing on this forum.
PheasantPlucker1 · 27/04/2021 18:26

I had missed that, thanks for clarifying

midgedude · 27/04/2021 18:26

So what am I?

Baby making body
No idea how otherwise I am different to men
Never get upset at misgendering which happens online
I would like to claim sex based rights and need to use the ladies ( san pro )

AssassinatedBeauty · 27/04/2021 18:27

@Shizuku no, I really don't. An absence of any feeling doesn't mean I have a feeling. Obviously.

A random stranger cannot tell me that I have an identity that I do not.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 27/04/2021 18:27

Right - and that's because you have a female gender identity. If you didn't, you'd have a whole lot of feelings about it.

Oh come on.

There are many, many reasons how i know I am a woman and not a single one of them has anything to do with how I identify. There have been many times when I have wished I wasn't a woman - does that mean I am not one?

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:29

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

Right - and that's because you have a female gender identity. If you didn't, you'd have a whole lot of feelings about it.

Oh come on.

There are many, many reasons how i know I am a woman and not a single one of them has anything to do with how I identify. There have been many times when I have wished I wasn't a woman - does that mean I am not one?

"There have been many times when I have wished I wasn't a woman"

Same for most trans women, but what can you do?

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:30

[quote AssassinatedBeauty]@Shizuku no, I really don't. An absence of any feeling doesn't mean I have a feeling. Obviously.

A random stranger cannot tell me that I have an identity that I do not. [/quote]
"A random stranger cannot tell me that I have an identity that I do not."

Well, I'm sure you will apply that logic when talking about trans women having female identities.

PheasantPlucker1 · 27/04/2021 18:32

Female is a biological reality.

Not an identity.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 27/04/2021 18:34

Well, I'm sure you will apply that logic when talking about trans women having female identities.

Transwomen can have whatever identity they like, I couldn't give a fuck. But it doesn't make them women. Because womanhood is not an identity, its not something you can identify into and its jot something you can identify out of. It's a biological reality.

AssassinatedBeauty · 27/04/2021 18:34

"I'm sure you will apply that logic when talking about trans women having female identities."

Of course. People are free to hold whatever beliefs or feelings they like about themselves. Of course, that doesn't in any way mean that their feelings/beliefs are able to override reality and the sex-based protections for women and girls.

Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:35

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

Well, I'm sure you will apply that logic when talking about trans women having female identities.

Transwomen can have whatever identity they like, I couldn't give a fuck. But it doesn't make them women. Because womanhood is not an identity, its not something you can identify into and its jot something you can identify out of. It's a biological reality.

Indeed - you can't change your gender identity.
Shizuku · 27/04/2021 18:37

@AssassinatedBeauty

"I'm sure you will apply that logic when talking about trans women having female identities."

Of course. People are free to hold whatever beliefs or feelings they like about themselves. Of course, that doesn't in any way mean that their feelings/beliefs are able to override reality and the sex-based protections for women and girls.

I look forward to you intervening when someone on this forum says that a trans woman doesn't have a female gender identity.
PheasantPlucker1 · 27/04/2021 18:40

Shizuku, unborn babies are killed for the crime of being female

It is a reality.
Not some mans identity.

Do you really have to persist in being both ignorant and offensive?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/04/2021 18:42

Cis women who are fertile have the added burden of the risk of pregnancy.

As do other women like most of us who are neither "cis" nor trans FTM.

MarshaBradyo · 27/04/2021 18:43

@PheasantPlucker1

Female is a biological reality.

Not an identity.

I agree.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/04/2021 18:44

Transwomen amd ciswomen are a tiny minority of the population, its women who are most at risk of rape and pregnancy.

This. Why all the talk about "cis women"? What about women who are neither trans or "cis"? Like me and many others? This is FWR, non "cis" women are the majority group of women.

Letsgetreadytocrumble · 27/04/2021 18:46

I look forward to you intervening when someone on this forum says that a trans woman doesn't have a female gender identity.

What does having a 'female gender identity' have to do with being a woman?

If a male is more comfortable presenting to the world as what they perceive from the outside being a woman is, and lives their life according to stereotypes about women (because if you are not actually a woman then outside perceptions and stereotypes are literally all you have to go on) then great, do whatever makes you happy and comfortable.

But none of that has anything to do with actually being a woman.

MarshaBradyo · 27/04/2021 18:46

We don’t need the term cis on here it’s offensive.

Fed up with having offensive and derogatory language forced on us. And constantly being silenced over it.

Especially on here a female space.