NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

[sunshineandhappy]

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'.
This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.'
We will wait to see whether I receive any response

Even at my university they manage to use the word woman when advertising and running these workshops.

I wish there was a like button! So many sensible and thoughtful comments here, I'm saving them for my next email. Thank you everyone, I feel like it is time to ensure our voices are heard but I am disappointed this is still a conversation that needs to be had. I remember my mum fighting for rights for women when I was a child, and yet here we still are asking for basic compassion and consideration!

@sunshineandhappy

I wish there was a like button! So many sensible and thoughtful comments here, I'm saving them for my next email. Thank you everyone, I feel like it is time to ensure our voices are heard but I am disappointed this is still a conversation that needs to be had. I remember my mum fighting for rights for women when I was a child, and yet here we still are asking for basic compassion and consideration!

Badass Badger award for standing up to this @sunshineandhappy

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🦡🌈🤍

@GCAcademic

Even at my university they manage to use the word woman when advertising and running these workshops.

They do. It isn't going to be that the term woman is forbidden, however this workshop clearly is also to be targeted for those who aren't women as well and they have to include that. I understand the upset, I get it. However it's either you are unhappy that the word woman isn't included, or trans men and non binary people don't get this education.

Only women go through the menopause

Men whatever clothes they are wearing, surgery they’ve had, however long their hair or whatever their name is do not go through the menopause based on the fact that they do not have female biology

TM have female biology & will go through the menopause. Sadly depending on what medication they’ve taken, some will go through it at a very young age

However it's either you are unhappy that the word woman isn't included, or trans men and non binary people don't get this education.

How does 'women AND transmen and non binary people' not work?

Why is it absolutely essential in your view that women suffer being unhappy before trans and non binary people can be catered for?

I have attended this workshop in the past. It is clearly aimed at women who are approaching the end of their reproductive life, and gives information about possible health issues they may face, and the types of medical and wellbeing assistance available. It is for individuals with female biology oh no, there's a more concise description than that!

@MichelleofzeResistance

However it's either you are unhappy that the word woman isn't included, or trans men and non binary people don't get this education.

How does 'women AND transmen and non binary people' not work?

Why is it absolutely essential in your view that women suffer being unhappy before trans and non binary people can be catered for?

Because they may not suit all. Plus I think trans men would prefer men but then even more women would be upset. Because women aren't suffering. That's an extreme word for something so small.

@sunshineandhappy

I have attended this workshop in the past. It is clearly aimed at women who are approaching the end of their reproductive life, and gives information about possible health issues they may face, and the types of medical and wellbeing assistance available. It is for individuals with female biology oh no, there's a more concise description than that!

So people with uteruses? Right.

....Or, that it says something like "perimenopausal or menopausal women, transmen and non binary females"?

As I said before, I really find it hard to believe that a transman would be happier to be called a "person who menstruates" than be referred to as a transman specifically, if the workshop is relevant for them (and as I also said, not convinced that a standard menopause workshop will meet the specific needs of most transmen).

@Diverze

....Or, that it says something like "perimenopausal or menopausal women, transmen and non binary females"?

As I said before, I really find it hard to believe that a transman would be happier to be called a "person who menstruates" than be referred to as a transman specifically, if the workshop is relevant for them (and as I also said, not convinced that a standard menopause workshop will meet the specific needs of most transmen).

You can say that huge mouthful but people with uteruses/cervix/who menstrurate/etc means the exact same.

Interesting too, the view that women who are unhappy about their personal language and identity being rejected is a necessary service they should provide out of social responsibility to others.

But there's no reciprocal responsibility to women from those others being cared for.

And no reciprocation of values: some people's choices and feelings matter and other people need to shut up, suffer and put others first, is this right?

The fundamental inequality of this is sexist and ridiculous.

Because they may not suit all.

How does 'women AND TM and NB people (and any other labels that may be wanted)' not suit all?

Surely it's the compromise that does suit all.

@MichelleofzeResistance

Interesting too, the view that women who are unhappy about their personal language and identity being rejected is a necessary service they should provide out of social responsibility to others.

But there's no reciprocal responsibility to women from those others being cared for.

And no reciprocation of values: some people's choices and feelings matter and other people need to shut up, suffer and put others first, is this right?

The fundamental inequality of this is sexist and ridiculous.

Basically this who argument is about "Well I don't like it" yet then the others who aren't women also say "Well I don't like it". So a variation of language is used. Sometimes it may say women. Sometimes it may say people with uteruses. Not all women have uteruses. Does that mean trans women can come to these classes if it says women?

Meanwhile over in the discussions about men’s health campaigns

“So we’re calling it mens health?”
“Yeah”

Men go back to not giving the remotest toss about placating, humouring, who stroking and all the other support human functions women are just expected to do

Which is why the words man and men carry on pre eminently while women as always are expected to beeeee kiiiiiiiind and give up their words

@Biscuitsanddoombar

Meanwhile over in the discussions about men’s health campaigns

“So we’re calling it mens health?”
“Yeah”

Men go back to not giving the remotest toss about placating, humouring, who stroking and all the other support human functions women are just expected to do

Which is why the words man and men carry on pre eminently while women as always are expected to beeeee kiiiiiiiind and give up their words

Changes are slowly being made to the language for men as well. Especially with young men. Who are all comfortable with it as far as I've seen.

"You can say that huge mouthful but people with uteruses/cervix/who menstrurate/etc means the exact same."

...and upsets two thirds of them by either reducing them to bodily functions or reminds them of bodily functions they find triggering. And also excludes women of limited education, bilingual women, and those with learning difficulties who may not know of understand that terminology.

It's ok to realise that what was devised with the very best of intentions doesn't actually work.

Women are not suffering

I think if a trans person was discussing feeling dehumanised, excluded, reduced to body parts, their choice of self definition and identity being rejected (exactly as women are here) you'd be quite vocal about the suffering involved and the importance of others caring about it.

Either these values apply equally to all, or what you're arguing for is just straight forward sexist discrimination against women.

@Diverze

"You can say that huge mouthful but people with uteruses/cervix/who menstrurate/etc means the exact same."

...and upsets two thirds of them by either reducing them to bodily functions or reminds them of bodily functions they find triggering. And also excludes women of limited education, bilingual women, and those with learning difficulties who may not know of understand that terminology.

It's ok to realise that what was devised with the very best of intentions doesn't actually work.

But its the NHS, they are talking about bodily functions so it isn't inappropriate. Which is also why there are support networks for billingual people and people who may be triggered. But if you are triggered by the words people with uteruses/cervix and more then I don't know what you'd expect for the doctors to say at the workshop?

You might want to refer them to the NHS advice on menopause, @sunshineandhappy

www.nhs.uk/conditions/menopause/

It's also produced by NHS Digital yet manages to use the term "Woman" throughout. this is because the guidance has been interpreted correctly.

Just popped back with a reminder that the NHS guidelines kindly provided upthread states

avoid making any groups of people feel excluded

And
The NHS themselves use phrases such as

“ All women and people with a cervix aged 25 to 64 should be invited by letter.”

www.nhs.uk/conditions/cervical-screening/

And also

“The prostate is a small gland in the pelvis, found only in men.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/

And also in this scenario, two separate workshops might the best way forward

@EyesOpening

Just popped back with a reminder that the NHS guidelines kindly provided upthread states

avoid making any groups of people feel excluded

And
The NHS themselves use phrases such as

“ All women and people with a cervix aged 25 to 64 should be invited by letter.”

www.nhs.uk/conditions/cervical-screening/

And also

“The prostate is a small gland in the pelvis, found only in men.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/

And also in this scenario, two separate workshops might the best way forward

Again, something that is gradually changing. It's not immediate.

@EyesOpening

Just popped back with a reminder that the NHS guidelines kindly provided upthread states

avoid making any groups of people feel excluded

And
The NHS themselves use phrases such as

“ All women and people with a cervix aged 25 to 64 should be invited by letter.”

www.nhs.uk/conditions/cervical-screening/

And also

“The prostate is a small gland in the pelvis, found only in men.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/

And also in this scenario, two separate workshops might the best way forward

Well reminded Eyes

Hopefully the OP has the information she needs to address this de-humanising language that I bet, like others have said, is not replicated in men’s workshops.

I don't get how it is dehumanising when it's including all types of people.

Is there a special course within health care provision training where they teach you to completely and utterly dismiss your target audience and deliberately make them feel unheard and like shite?

Because that would explain a hell of a lot.