NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

[sunshineandhappy]

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'.
This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.'
We will wait to see whether I receive any response

@AnyOldPrion

”Gender Diversity in particular has seen unprecedented change in recent years, with more recently, a focus on maternity services following patient feedback.”

This tells me we have to complain every single time we are excluded by their ludicrous use of dehumanising language. I am aware of Stonewall at al’s influence, but this suggests that this might be partly driven by a tiny group of people who are determined to complain loudly on every possible occasion in order to drive the change they want.

Yep! It’s a common campaigning tactic. Get stonewall in at board level flogging their training & quality Mark and get activists complaining at the grassroots level - duel approach

It’s quite normal to have people who just go through publicity materials to find a basis for complaints

However I’m still baffled as to how it’s this that gets so much traction. People with disabilities have been complaining for ever about exclusionary language as well as physical exclusion because of inaccessible buildings etc but strangely very little seems to change...

Out of interest I took a look at the language used in the Aortic Aneurism Screening Service that the reply mentioned. Oh look - it's very clear that this is a heart issue that applies to men so only men are routinely screened:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/abdominal-aortic-aneurysm-screening/

No penis havers or ejaculators . Plain clear targeted language. As it should be - except when it comes to women in the NHS.

They would prefer that the word woman is not associated with any of its biological meaning at all, just inner feelings and then there is no distinction between whether you’re a woman who menstruates or one with a penis!

Yes and in the process make it clear via the language that you use that the other lot are the support humans, the bleeders, incubators etc

Not everyone who menstruates is a woman

Literally everyone who menstruates is a woman.

@persistentwoman

Out of interest I took a look at the language used in the Aortic Aneurism Screening Service that the reply mentioned. Oh look - it's very clear that this is a heart issue that applies to men so only men are routinely screened:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/abdominal-aortic-aneurysm-screening/

No penis havers or ejaculators . Plain clear targeted language. As it should be - except when it comes to women in the NHS.

What a pathetic non-reply they gave you. Maybe you should proof-read and edit that link so they can see how it feels to be called a penis-haver and scrotum-hanger.

@persistentwoman

Out of interest I took a look at the language used in the Aortic Aneurism Screening Service that the reply mentioned. Oh look - it's very clear that this is a heart issue that applies to men so only men are routinely screened:

www.nhs.uk/conditions/abdominal-aortic-aneurysm-screening/

No penis havers or ejaculators . Plain clear targeted language. As it should be - except when it comes to women in the NHS.

Seeing as they pointed out this particular section, there might be mileage for sunshineandhappy to point this out and pinpoint the fact that in her experience the dehumanising language occurs more often when it’s women who are being targeted (perhaps with further examples) and ask them pointedly why they think that might be as the most likely reason for this difference is sexism and disrespect for women.

Indeed having looked at the link myself, I have no idea why they pointed it out as it’s perfectly clear throughout and mentions both men and women.

Which begs the question, why is it specifically that they would use dehumanising language, not for an illness that affects women, but for anything related to women’s reproductive health..

I mean we all know the answer. It’s because some men who claim they are women target women’s medicine. And the reasons for that are unmentionable here, but real nonetheless.

Sorry, women’s reproductive health, not women’s medicine,

I mean we all know the answer. It’s because some men who claim they are women target women’s medicine. And the reasons for that are unmentionable here, but real nonetheless.

And every time men who claim they are women do this, they reveal just how much they really are men to their very core.

looking at that link :
pregnant women seems OK on a page to do with Men's health
but not women's

oh silly me
its because the me are not clever enough to work through the
doublespeak
that women are used to

He's surely given me some ammunition in the example he's given me. It's ok to use the word men but not the word women 😮 all I want is the inclusion of 'women and' in hospital emails. There's another email being sent tomorrow!

Sunshine
Just imagine the uproar if the whole of that page had to be feminised
offered to
men and other people
men and transmen
and not offered to
women and other people
men and other people
oh, hang on

they know what women are / are not
methinks a bit of sex discrimination
is going on here

n England, screening for AAA is offered to people with penises, and trans women, during the year they turn 65.

Scrotum-havers and trans women aged 65 or over are most at risk of getting AAAs. Screening can help spot a swelling in the aorta early on when it can usually be treated. Screening for AAA is not routinely offered to:
• people with vaginas
•People with penises under 65
•scrotum-havers who have already been treated for an AAA

This is because the risk of getting an AAA is much smaller in these groups.

Gender Diversity in particular has seen unprecedented change in recent years, with more recently, a focus on maternity services following patient feedback.

I wonder how much patient feedback the NHS gets on this given the vanishingly small number of trans men giving birth compared to the vast numbers of women? Or is it trans women patients taking a particular interest in women's services which are actually not relevant to them, or is it lobby groups like Stonewall? I just don't believe that service user pressure on this area is so overwhelming that they have to ditch the word woman.

There is no policy that says the word ‘women / woman’ cannot be used

But what does woman/women mean?

We will have to keep that on file for a certain regular poster who tell us the nhs are getting rid of it.

It's jarring isn't it NeedToKnow101 ? Yet this is how the NHS prefers to speak about women at the behest of ???? (well we all know who and it's not women)

Seeing as they pointed out this particular section, there might be mileage for sunshineandhappy to point this out and pinpoint the fact that in her experience the dehumanising language occurs more often when it’s women who are being targeted (perhaps with further examples) and ask them pointedly why they think that might be as the most likely reason for this difference is sexism and disrespect for women.

Yes, absolutely.

@sunshineandhappy

He's surely given me some ammunition in the example he's given me. It's ok to use the word men but not the word women 😮 all I want is the inclusion of 'women and' in hospital emails. There's another email being sent tomorrow!

Careful sunshine. On the page they linked, they use both “men” and “women”.

The point is the area of medicine/reproductive health. Thinking it through, all the targeted areas I’ve seen are related to women’s reproductive health.

The targeting is more subtle than simply that they always target the word women and not the word men.

Hold on s minute...

'For the scan:

you lie down on a table and lift up or unbutton your top (you do not need to undress)'

Their gender people can't have been through that. What if the patient is wearing a dress?

*The point is the area of medicine/reproductive health. Thinking it through, all the targeted areas I’ve seen are related to women’s reproductive health.

The targeting is more subtle than simply that they always target the word women and not the word men.*

It's a good point.

Well done & thank for continuing to complain Op.

Yes, I too was interested in the mention of the Aortic Aneurysm screening because I know a few men, including my DH, who've been called to have it. And surprise, surprise, it's men it applies to.

Other than that, the response is quite frankly the biggest pile of laughably badly-written waffle I've seen in a long time. Don't they even bother to proof-read?

Keep going, OP, you're doing a great job here.

@NeedToKnow101

n England, screening for AAA is offered to people with penises, and trans women, during the year they turn 65.

Scrotum-havers and trans women aged 65 or over are most at risk of getting AAAs. Screening can help spot a swelling in the aorta early on when it can usually be treated. Screening for AAA is not routinely offered to:
• people with vaginas
•People with penises under 65
•scrotum-havers who have already been treated for an AAA

This is because the risk of getting an AAA is much smaller in these groups.

This has really make me laugh which I needed, this issue depresses me so much

It crosses my mind that they linked that page because it uses both words.

I’m quite possibly being too subtle, but I wonder whether they hope OP will write back and say they are using the word “men” freely at which point they will do a “gotcha” and point out the use of the word “women”, falsely implying that it is equal and the “gender hypersensitive” version is only used for reproductive health or areas that might be “triggering”.

But I suspect they’d find, if they looked, that men’s reproductive health never seems to be “triggering” enough for those transitioning from female to male to be given similar consideration.

What's with the gender, gender diversity stuff? The EQA states that Gender Reassignment is the protected characteristic as is Sex.

Wonder which patients provided feedback regarding maternity, when Brighton announced their changes there was almost universal condemnation of the new language.

There is no policy that says the word ‘women / woman’ cannot be used, we strongly recommend that using other categories and descriptors alongside to be inclusive

So, why wasn't the word woman/women used?