NHS staff invitation to menopause workshop to people who menstruate!

[sunshineandhappy]

I received a generic email from the well being team at the nhs trust I am employed by inviting me to a managing menopause workshop which was open to 'people who menstruate or people who will go through the menopause'.
This was my reply I was disappointed to see the following phrase ‘those who menstruate or those who will go through the menopause ‘ in the below email. The correct phrase for the target audience should surely include the word women, even if the other phrasing needs to be used as well, as this clumsy phrasing, whilst appearing to be inclusive to a minority, is actually exclusive to the way the vast majority of the target audience for this seminar may feel. I do not want to be reduced to being a person who menstruates or a person who will go through the menopause, I am a woman, an adult human female. I hope my opinion will be considered in the spirit in which it is meant, as all groups matter, and all relevant individuals should be considered when generic emails are being sent to a large number of staff.'
We will wait to see whether I receive any response

Fantastic email, well done!

@sunshineandhappy bravo.

hope they respond thoughtfully!!

Excellent e-mail, points well made. Be interesting to see their response.

Excellent email , succinct and incisive .
I'm looking forward to any response you receive .

Well done sunshine 👏

Adding my voice to the chorus of people who think that’s a great message. Anyone dismissing it would have to be deeply bigoted.

Please can someone explain to me why, when transmen want to be seen as women, they would be offended by the word?

They consider themselves women so they could, if they wished, attend a women's group on menopause. It doesn't say (only those biologically women an attend, does it?)

I genuinely don't understand this point.

@OnlyTheHousekeeper because of the workshop is for ‘those who menstruate’ and it uses the word woman, this would imply
that women are those who menstruate, and that would make trans women feel sad and left out as they are biologically male and can’t.
The language used is offending biological women to avoid offending trans women.

@OnlyTheHousekeeper

Please can someone explain to me why, when transmen want to be seen as women, they would be offended by the word?

They consider themselves women so they could, if they wished, attend a women's group on menopause. It doesn't say (only those biologically women an attend, does it?)

I genuinely don't understand this point.

Transmen are biological women who want to be seen as men

Transwomen are biological men who want to be seen as women.

It's all ridiculously confusing....

A response from the head of equality and diversity. Not sure what if anything is actually going to happen now though. Will consider how to respond.

Thank you for your email. Your comments are noted – we have previously been made aware. From correspondence with the Staff Wellbeing team I am assured there was no intention to make anyone feel excluded, on the grounds of gender, gender diversity or gender reassignment status. There is no policy that says the word ‘women / woman’ cannot be used, we strongly recommend that using other categories and descriptors alongside to be inclusive. Nonetheless we have again sought external advice on inclusive terminology are hopeful to find inclusive wording that recognises and does not diminish your or anyone’s identity.

Just to add that at national level, NHS policies and guidance are increasingly adapting to be more inclusive in the use of language and terminology to reflect society. Gender Diversity in particular has seen unprecedented change in recent years, with more recently, a focus on maternity services following patient feedback. However, some specific services have already been being reviewed in line with identities, recognising some people define as gender – fluid on non-binary, for example the Aortic Abdominal Aneurism service as part of the wider NHS Screening Service has been through review. It is a complex area but the intention is always one that acts in a person’s best interest and accords them dignity and privacy.

Thank you for again for raising this important subject and I hope this can be resolved soonest.

hmmmmmm

I am assured there was no intention to make anyone feel excluded, on the grounds of gender, gender diversity or gender reassignment status

you felt excluded on the grounds of sex not gender

Nonetheless we have again sought external advice on inclusive terminology are hopeful to find inclusive wording that recognises and does not diminish your or anyone’s identity

means we will get advice from Stonewall which is going to come back and say their language is fine

well at least they came back to you and didn't just handwave away your concerns. Be interesting to see what their update is

But fundamentally this is a workshop about a biological process that women go through. Why is someone’s internal identity in any way relevant to that discussion? I know thAt ship has already sailed but it’s so stupid.

That answer from your EDI people is perfect mansplaining, and their focus on "gender" rather than "sex" contravenes the Equalities Act.

It is patronising & pompous and doesn't acknowledge the offence caused to women by excluding them from a workshop fucking well only women are qualified to attend.

@Kit19

hmmmmmm

I am assured there was no intention to make anyone feel excluded, on the grounds of gender, gender diversity or gender reassignment status

you felt excluded on the grounds of sex not gender

Nonetheless we have again sought external advice on inclusive terminology are hopeful to find inclusive wording that recognises and does not diminish your or anyone’s identity

means we will get advice from Stonewall which is going to come back and say their language is fine

well at least they came back to you and didn't just handwave away your concerns. Be interesting to see what their update is

Yes, this. "We've outsourced our thinking on this to Stonewall in order to avoid getting told off, we're really not as bothered about whether women are upset".

It is a complex area but the intention is always one that acts in a person’s best interest and accords them dignity and privacy.

But they're practically admitting that they don't care about 52% of the population's 'dignity' or 'best interests.'

I wonder how much your Head of Equality and Diversity is paid and why they feel the need to seek external guidance on this. Pathetic. No wonder the NHS is in such a poor state if senior staff have to defer to external consultants.

I don’t think the reply even warrants the term mansplanning. They couldn’t be bothered to understand your concerns or respond to them. Rubbish standard reply.

I wonder if it’s worth asking them to help to get to the point of resolving this soonest by defining sex and gender and gender diversity and gender reassignment as used in their correspondence.
And by asking them again if they could please respond to your sex-based points in relation the dignity and privacy of women/adult human females in this workplace. These other measures they have described taking (while important to note for women) don’t seem to be directly relevant to women (natal females), regardless of how they identify their own gender, in the sense of your question which is was about the dignity of peri and post menopausal colleagues at your workplace who by definition will only be female. If this employer didn’t avoid using sex based terms it would be much clearer what they meant.

@Kit19 @Lifeaintalwaysempty I meant transwomen

But it still doesn't make sense that if you desire to be a woman, then applying the word women to you should make you happy!

If TWAW and TMAM then there is no need for any of this, simply men and women is sufficient as appropriate.

After all surely transwomen know deep down they don't menstruate or go through menopause either so to be referred to this bodily function is just as exclusionary!

@OnlyTheHousekeeper if the word woman is associated with any of the biological functions that women go through, this hurts the feelings of trans women as this is a definition of women they can’t sit within.
They would prefer that the word woman is not associated with any of its biological meaning at all, just inner feelings and then there is no distinction between whether you’re a woman who menstruates or one with a penis!

'. It is a complex area but the intention is always one that acts in a person’s best interest and accords them dignity and privacy.'

I don't think referring to women by their bodily functions is very dignified. Periods aren't dignified. How is it dignified to essentially refer to someone as a person who expels blood and tissue from their vagina cyclically.

Would a man find it dignified to be referred to as a person with a scrotum?

They genuinely think this language is dignified.

The explanations are always more damning than the original.

NHS policies and guidance are increasingly adapting to be more inclusive in the use of language and terminology to reflect society. Gender Diversity in particular has seen unprecedented change in recent years
Which rather ignores the fact that
only those without a Y chromosome
have periods
only those without a Y chromosome
go through the menopause
only those without a Y chromosome
go through pregnancy and childbirth

Strange that an organisation in charge of health care has such a poor grasp of biology

”Gender Diversity in particular has seen unprecedented change in recent years, with more recently, a focus on maternity services following patient feedback.”

This tells me we have to complain every single time we are excluded by their ludicrous use of dehumanising language. I am aware of Stonewall at al’s influence, but this suggests that this might be partly driven by a tiny group of people who are determined to complain loudly on every possible occasion in order to drive the change they want.

Agree, we have to start complaining more.