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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Well, that's us told

358 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 13/04/2021 20:14

lux-magazine.com/article/the-road-to-terfdom/

This is an article about Mumsnet FWR boards. Author doesn't like us. Oh dear.

OP posts:
EdgeOfACoin · 14/04/2021 17:22

@GoingThruTheMotions

I prefer this plop.
Awww, I loved that book as a child, GoingThru!
Kimchidreams · 14/04/2021 17:40

Exactly @R0wantrees. TRAs and their handmaidens talk about intersectionality all the time, however they don’t listen to the voices of actual black women who don’t agree with their ideology and who care about the erosion of women’s rights. We have skin in the game, you know, being women and all Hmm.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/04/2021 17:44

It's a bastardised form of "intersectionality" that doesn't recognise being female as an intersecting axis of oppression.

NoSquirrels · 14/04/2021 17:59

What an absolutely MARVELLOUS article.

I mean - it was very long-winded, and seemed to go in circles a bit, but it did do an comprehensive job of representing how Mumsnet is a catalyst for women who want to consider biology important to feminism.

"How wrong I was to underestimate Mumsnet."

LOLs.

I particularly enjoyed the conclusion:

My reporting on MRAs hasn’t found many solutions. In the long run, I hope that there will be an ever-growing movement for gender liberation that sweeps up mums in its embrace, leaving the toxic forums to wither. But the only individual solution that seems to work, anecdotally, is having long conversations with family members like Mulready did.

SUBMIT TO THE GROUPTHINK. BE KIND, MUMS. BE KIND.

That isn’t going to be easy.

When one commenter posted that she was “at the end of my tether with my mother, who has become engulfed in the gender critical discourse mainly thanks to this website” this stated attempt at an “open discussion” garnered 1,000 comments. In the end, the original poster only responded to a few. Perhaps she was a troll, as some commenters surmised, or maybe she was overwhelmed by the Mumsnetters, who called her a “midnight misogynist” and told her to “listen to her mum.”

Katie J.M. Baker is a reporter based in London.

Wonder if Katie did in fact, "listen to her mum" in the end? Wink

R0wantrees · 14/04/2021 18:21

Independent by Nora Mulready
'I sympathised with gender-critical campaigners – until my nephew came out as trans
I clutched at everything I could find to validate my instinct that transgender identities were a millennial fad. But when I stopped to listen to my trailblazing sister, I saw that her son was thriving'
Thursday 27 August 2020

www.independent.co.uk/voices/transgender-gender-critical-recognition-act-jk-rowling-lgbt-a9687576.html

Nora Mulready's 'trail blazing sister' Molly Mulready is a lawyer closely involved with Jolyon Maugham, the GLP and its 'Legal Defence Fund for Transgender Lives' goodlawproject.org/update/advisory-group-transgender/

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 14/04/2021 18:23

@GoingThruTheMotions

I prefer this plop.
I loved reading this to DS.

“You are what you are”, his parents told him, wisely.

Sophoclesthefox · 14/04/2021 18:25

Well, isn’t that an interesting connection, R0.

It’s so good you’re back Smile

Delphinium20 · 14/04/2021 18:29

@StrangeLookingParasite

And South Australia in 1894, Western Australia in 1899, and Australia as a whole in 1902 (could be wrong). Certainly all of Australia by 1911.

New Zillund Zealand (all of it) in 1893, too.

My favorite stat on women getting the right to vote is the state of Wyoming in 1870. Low-population state that felt more voices = better representation.

And those Nordic regions before Christianity, allowing women to speak and divorce at will!!!

CardinalLolzy · 14/04/2021 18:33

Perhaps she was a troll, as some commenters surmised, or maybe she was overwhelmed by the Mumsnetters, who called her a “midnight misogynist” and told her to “listen to her mum.”

I'm going a bit Giles Coren here, but it's the midnight misogynist, not a midnight misogynist. There can be only one!

CardinalLolzy · 14/04/2021 18:34

[quote R0wantrees]Independent by Nora Mulready
'I sympathised with gender-critical campaigners – until my nephew came out as trans
I clutched at everything I could find to validate my instinct that transgender identities were a millennial fad. But when I stopped to listen to my trailblazing sister, I saw that her son was thriving'
Thursday 27 August 2020

www.independent.co.uk/voices/transgender-gender-critical-recognition-act-jk-rowling-lgbt-a9687576.html

Nora Mulready's 'trail blazing sister' Molly Mulready is a lawyer closely involved with Jolyon Maugham, the GLP and its 'Legal Defence Fund for Transgender Lives' goodlawproject.org/update/advisory-group-transgender/[/quote]
Interesting!

BatleyTownswomensGuild · 14/04/2021 18:42

Please someone tell me where I can get a 'radicalised by Mumsnet' badge??!! Grin

R0wantrees · 14/04/2021 18:43

Well, isn’t that an interesting connection, R0.

Isn't it just? The Mulready family are quite well connected. Nora & Molly's mother Sally Mulready has done a great deal of important work supporting women:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Mulready

Re Joylon Maugham's trans fighting fund, from Terms of Reference (embedded link in doc)
"The Advisory Group was established by Molly Mulready at the request of The Good Law Project."

members:
C N Lester is chair.
Sabah Choudrey (youth work & Trans Pride Brighton)
Penni Gillen (parent of male child identified as trans)
Dr Kamilla Kamarudden (GP London)
Prof Alex Sharpe
Leanne Taylor (Social Work Kent University)
Ramses Underhill- Smith
Mridhul Wadhwa

"The trans community is spoken at, over, about, around, but never heard. We intend these monies to be an asset of the trans community"

Inaugaral Meeting:
"Earlier this afternoon, the Advisory Group to the Legal Defence Fund for Transgender Lives met for the first time. The fund was set up on 22 November, and on 8 December, when the fund already exceeded £100,000, Good Law Project announced that it was setting up an advisory group to help it administer the fund.

We have published the names of the members – and brief biogs. We’ve also published the terms of reference of the Advisory Group. Because Good Law Project raised the money in its own name and is accountable to those who donated to it, it needs to have a veto right over spending but, of course, it is highly unlikely to exercise that right and the advisory group could publish the exercise of that veto.

We also agreed on two spending commitments.

The first is that a legal team including David Lock QC, Jason Pobjoy, and Isabel Buchanan (acting either pro bono or at heavily discounted rates) will seek to ‘intervene’ in the Tavistock’s appeal against the Bell judgment. An intervention is where other parties with an interest ask to be heard in a case – alongside the main parties.

The intervention will be on behalf of a small group of NGOs who we will name in due course. The intention is to make points that were made inadequately or not at all before the Divisional Court around, in particular, (i) the need to hear what teenagers say about their own lives (ii) the role of parental consent and (iii) wider implications (e.g. for access to abortion) of the decision. The Advisory Group believes the decision was wrong and there is a reasonable basis for thinking it can be overturned.

The second commitment arises from the fact that, presently, the Tavistock does not accept that parents can consent to their children having puberty blockers. And the decision in the Bell case means that children cannot consent either. This leads to the situation where the consent of the Court – itself a huge barrier in practice – needs to be sought even in circumstances where a specialist doctor, parent, and child all agree that a treatment is in the child’s best interests.

The Tavistock will be invited – or sought to be compelled – to review its position in relation to whether to accept parental consent. In practice success on this action would remove, in many or most cases, the practical barrier to treatment posed by the Bell decision."

Delphinium20 · 14/04/2021 18:46

“listen to her mum.”

Whenever I see young women encouraged to be dismissive of female wisdom, I just feel sad. As a middle-aged, menopausal mother, I want nothing more than to help and protect young people. That is my motivation, my drive and it's the OPPOSITE of hate. It's because of my love for DDs and trans family members that I take my experience and knowledge to these boards.

We all have mothers and to deny their powers and their gifts is a terrible form of misogyny.

"Mothers and daughters have always exchanged with each other-beyond the verbally transmitted lore of female survival- a knowledge that is subliminal, subversive, preverbal: the knowledge flowing between two alike bodies, one of which has spent nine months inside the other" --Adrienne Rich

GoingThruTheMotions · 14/04/2021 18:47

Mummy owl was so wise. Owls can't afford navel gazing (as I don't believe they have them for one!)

R0wantrees · 14/04/2021 18:59

@Kimchidreams

Exactly *@R0wantrees*. TRAs and their handmaidens talk about intersectionality all the time, however they don’t listen to the voices of actual black women who don’t agree with their ideology and who care about the erosion of women’s rights. We have skin in the game, you know, being women and all Hmm.
There are a lot of white men who identify as 'intersectional feminists' who completely ignore and even attack actual black women who disagree with them. I cannot see how this is anything other than racism and sexism combined.
RabbitOfCaerbannog · 14/04/2021 19:09

There are a lot of white men who identify as 'intersectional feminists'

Oh they're just the best. Although it's a close tie with patronising Lib feminists who are never going to be the sort of nasty feminists that question the motives of the menz.

Datun · 14/04/2021 19:13

@BatleyTownswomensGuild

Please someone tell me where I can get a 'radicalised by Mumsnet' badge??!! Grin
Maya Forstater gave me mine.

She stuck it on my top. Felt like I'd come first on sports day.

Forgotthebins · 14/04/2021 19:14

Good grief, that Katie Baker’s a patronising cow, isn’t she. Sees what she wants to see, that one. It’s at least a novel way of belittling Mumsnetters, saying we’re all rich, stuck at home with no friends nursing psychic wounds somehow acquired in childbirth. Whatever makes you happy, Katie love, if you’re still reading. The women on here will still carry on defending women’s rights, even yours.

RabbitOfCaerbannog · 14/04/2021 19:15

The women on here will still carry on defending women’s rights, even yours.

Yep

SirVixofVixHall · 14/04/2021 19:39

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I was wondering if it was an article attempting to cash in on being a North American living in the UK and therefore able to report first-hand on the baffling phenomenon of gender critical feminists who want to preserve their sex-based rights. As I understand it, there are nothing like as extensive comparable rights in the US, so I suppose it must be hard for them to grasp.
Grin
R0wantrees · 14/04/2021 19:53

As I understand it, there are nothing like as extensive comparable rights in the US, so I suppose it must be hard for them to grasp.

US women like Ms Baker would do better to consider what's happening to civil liberties in USA.

This current thread is shocking:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4219641-ACLU-sues-woman-for-asking-FOIA-request-re-numbers-of-trans-prisoners

Delphinium20 · 14/04/2021 19:58

And reproductive rights...

Ohio bans abortions of foetuses with Down Syndrome www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4219247-Ohio-bans-abortions-of-foetuses-with-Down-Syndrome

R0wantrees · 14/04/2021 20:02

Women's reproductive rights...

Delphinium20 · 14/04/2021 20:22

@R0wantrees

Women's reproductive rights...
Yes. And the US has seen a worrisome push to define reproductive rights for men as the right to surrogates and egg donors - in other words, the rights to women's bodies.

www.nytimes.com/2019/06/12/nyregion/surrogate-pregnancy-law-ny.html

But its bizarrely touted as a win for LGBTQ...how exactly this is a win for lesbians or bisexual women?

www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-gestational-surrogacy-now-legal-new-york-state

AgentCooper · 14/04/2021 20:25

What a weird article Confused I’m more of a reader than a poster on these boards but what, she’s saying that we all stop working and disappear into motherhood once we have kids? That this makes us lonely and angry?

I won’t deny that I found early motherhood very lonely, or being furloughed for 6 months with only my toddler for company because my husband earns more and his work can’t conceive of the fact that his wife might work too. But seriously, comparing mothers to incels in basements??

This writer can’t get her head around the idea that biology isn’t fucking flexible? Because I really loved having to be the one who spent 3 days in horrible induced labour and a further 8 days in hospital with zero sleep afterwards. I really loved having to be the one who went through a medical abortion at home alone, passing clots on the toilet while my husband got on with his work.