Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

[XXSex]

I am LIVID!!! New technical guidance has been released.
www.education.ie/en/School-Design/Technical-Guidance-Documents/Current-Technical-Guidance/sdg-02-06-sanitary-facilities-april-2021-.pdf

All mixed sex. Hand basin outside the WC (WAH your bloody hands in front of boys). Doors down to the floor (any one else see an issue in a mixed sex school with mixed sex toilets with this set up)

What the were the department thinking?!!!

@IloveJKRowling

I can just imagine how many teenage boys might use the justification of 'I was just using the urinal' if they want to flash teenage girls. etc. etc

Surely SURELY there won't be urinals in unisex toilets? Flashing is a crime

Apologies - you're right there wouldn't be...I was thinking of a normal male toilet set up. I suppose it's more that there will be far more opportunities for harassment of girls that I was thinking of. Not trying to demonise teenage boys but there will always be a few who push the boundaries.

Re flashing. There are girls and boys with learning difficulties and autism who may get into trouble/teased as they forget to close/lock doors.

Impact on girls of mixed sex bathrooms is that they hold their urine in all day and suffer health problems as a result.

www.transgendertrend.com/gender-neutral-toilets-schools/

''Menstruating girls have even said they’re staying home from school because they’re afraid of feeling “period shame.”
Others said they simply didn’t feel safe using the bathroom with boys.''
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7542005/Girls-skipping-school-avoid-sharing-gender-neutral-toilets-boys.html

Letters to the Editors Irish women!

For those who wish to write to the department or the Minister the address is
[email protected]
[email protected]

If anyone is on Twitter you can @ them @Education_Ire

While girls are telling us that this is what is happening to them in schools: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56558487
The response from adults is to remove from them single sex toilets, changing rooms and showers for .... reasons......

Autism and using a public toilet:
autismawarenesscentre.com/shop/life-skills/sexuality-and-hygiene/tom-needs-go/

Reasons why toilet doors don’t go down to the floor:
www.wcportables.co.uk/blog/why-public-toilet-doors-do-not-reach-the-floor/

There’s lots of UK reports linked. But here’s an Irish one. Sexual assaults in schools and universities
www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40038686.html%3ftype=amp
'The risk of sexual violence in schools and universities is so widespread as to be similar to a pandemic'

The 2019 SVCC found that 15% of those who were sexually assaulted were between 14-18 years old.

10% of the perpetrators were under 18.

Girls need to be protected.

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/alleged-sexual-assault-fee-paying-school-ireland-5361912-Feb2021/%3famp=1

AN GARDA SÍOCHÁNA is looking into whether or not staff at a fee-paying secondary school in Leinster withheld information from gardaí in relation to an alleged sexual assault of a female student by a male student.

The alleged assault took place at the school in November 2017 and was reported to gardaí in February 2018. Gardaí took statements from students at the school as part of the investigation.

DDs2&3's school did this by stealth in lockdown. One school block only had girls toilets. They changed that into a set of mixed sex toilets. 1 toilet for 'girls', one for 'boys' and 3 'gender neutral' toilets. Their cover story rationale was that because they were zoning the school for bubbles due to Covid, they couldn't have boys having nowhere to go to use the loo. Annnnddd... Well they'd been being asked for gender neutral toilets for years. Who knows whether a trans individual would be more comfortable using a toilet labelled with their new gender? Who knows whether a child may prefer a neutral toilet, so let's put one of each sex and 3 neutral in.

Funnily enough, when I complained, they decided DD2 could use the PE toilets if she was uncomfortable with the gender neutral ones. Interesting that it hadn't been thought of as a solution to the boys having no toilets.

As it is, DD2 (who has ASD) simply won't use the toilets at school now, at all, despite having a toilet pass. She restricts fluids and we've bought Modibodi period pants, so that she can go all day without needing to change sanitary products.

As it is, DD2 (who has ASD) simply won't use the toilets at school now, at all, despite having a toilet pass. She restricts fluids and we've bought Modibodi period pants, so that she can go all day without needing to change sanitary products.

What an inclusive, kind, tolerant and neurodiverse policy experience this is for your poor DD.

Less access than others. Restrictions that make her less comfortable, less safe and healthy. Biological sex based challenges that she is having to find ways to avoid. No regard or interest whatsoever in her wellbeing, physical or anything else.

All so that male children may experience the emotional benefit of having their preferred freedom of choice from everything at all times.

'No issues'?

Another Irish radfem group to alert:
radicailin.com/

Is there anything non-Irish residents can do?

@ASugarr

You recently shared a video on your Twitter page condemning the French government for their laws on the hijab. You think they are discriminatory. Britain has a large population of Muslim women who are not happy with mixed sex toilets.

How do you draw your lines of what is acceptable and what isn't?

Are mixed sex toilets to be celebrated because it suits your ideology around gender fluidity and because you think trans people trump Muslim people in this instance?

It is in everyone's interest to have all toilets remain single sex. If you want the vanishingly small population of trans people to feel comfortable in the toilet then you should campaign for a third space for them. It is not right to rip away women's hard fought for rights and safety for the sake of another class of people.

Write to your TD. Write to the department. Here’s my letter to Minister Foley

With regards to the new School Design Guide I note that single sex toilet facilities are no longer to be afforded to school aged children. This is a change in policy from the previous Technical Guidance.

It surprises me that the exemption on the gender ground, section 5(2)(g), in the Equal Status Acts 2000-2018 is no longer being relied upon. This exemption can be used if someone might be embarrassed by the presence of the opposite gender because of lack of privacy. Menstruating girls should be able to rely upon this exemption and indeed boys may also feel embarrassed by the presence of girls while they are toileting.

I assume that in order to arrive at this decision the Department has undertaken extensive consultation with staff and service users as is the Department’s statutory obligation under Section 42 of the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission Act 2014.

I note that an Equality Impact Assessment is the norm when meeting this statutory obligation.

I would be obliged if you could forward to me the Equality Impact Assessment and copies of all consultations carried out with any parties. I would also appreciate if you could confirm if consultations were carried out with other parties which do not come under the statutory obligations.

I note that this is probably large in volume and I thank you in advance for compiling same.

If necessary this can be handled under a freedom of information request under the 2014 Act.

I wish I wrote an angrier email though 😡

@Whatwouldscullydo

None of this has any place in schools anyway. Why is there never money for new sports equipment or new books or new computers or provision for kids with disabilities/SN or even loo roll but suddenly there's money for gender neutral toilets.

Ajd to have the nerve to dress it up as beneficial to all when cleaning piss off seats and forcing 11 year old girls to have their first periods next to teenage boys is as far from beneficial as you can get. Why are adults so keen.to use children to prove a point.

I think people proposing introducing these toilets have perhaps had very little interaction with teenagers & young people recently? Have a sanitised (no pun intended) view of how they interact, how bullying happens, what bad behaviour happens.

I have an idea they have some rainbow-tinted vision of nice, obedient boys and girls and nonbinaries tripping carefully like little grown ups into the toilets and respectfully maintaining boundaries using correct pronouns and hand sanitising like they're supposed to.

Anyone who's worked in a school will know differently.

Reminds me of post-covid measures in our primary school, all carefully thought through and implemented and rendered utterly ineffectual within ten minutes of the kids running about screaming, licking and sneezing on each other.

I don't mean to be dismissively flip, either. Safeguarding means considering the worst possible outcomes/behaviour and trying to ensure it doesn't happen. Not starting from some utopian vision and trying to work backwards.

[quote daysofthunder]@ASugarr

You recently shared a video on your Twitter page condemning the French government for their laws on the hijab. You think they are discriminatory. Britain has a large population of Muslim women who are not happy with mixed sex toilets.

How do you draw your lines of what is acceptable and what isn't?

Are mixed sex toilets to be celebrated because it suits your ideology around gender fluidity and because you think trans people trump Muslim people in this instance?

It is in everyone's interest to have all toilets remain single sex. If you want the vanishingly small population of trans people to feel comfortable in the toilet then you should campaign for a third space for them. It is not right to rip away women's hard fought for rights and safety for the sake of another class of people. [/quote]
Do I think all of the bathrooms in school should be unisex? No. But I like the idea of the option.

@Mulletsaremisunderstood

ASugarr I think if these young people are old enough to have to learn some of the subjects they do, especially when they are in secondary school then they have the ability to make a choice of what bathroom they wish to use.

Fair enough, but what about students who don't wish to share their space with the opposite sex - shouldn't they have a choice too?

By all means, add a third unisex space, but I don't think removing single sex spaces is the way forward.

Yeah I want to confirm that I don't think all bathrooms in schools should be unisex. But having some unisex options sounds like a fabulous idea.

Theres a boys school near me that is in the process of moving to a new site because they've grown in number so much over the past few years that they've outgrown the current building and even outgrown the site itself.

I think the new school is planning on accommodating 1200 boys, can you imagine what break times are going to be like with 60 cubicles for the whole building (they said a ratio of 1:20 in the document) for 1200 boys? Getting rid of urinals for all boys schools seems crazy and surely will just lead to them going up against walls etc outside.

@ASugarr

That's good to hear. I think if there's a demand for it there should be a third space and standard single sex toilets should be left as is.

I agree. Having some unisex options sounds like a fabulous idea to me too. Lets add more. Let's add all the ones any child could possibly need, lets be diverse and inclusive and meet all needs.

That isn't what this is. So can we agree removing sex based provision from all girls is a really, really bad and unethical idea?

[quote daysofthunder]@ASugarr

That's good to hear. I think if there's a demand for it there should be a third space and standard single sex toilets should be left as is. [/quote]
Understood. I think many young people will not mind sharing a bathroom space and unisex bathrooms will help a lot with young people who are transgender and more. However I understand your point that certain people won't be comfortable and that some single sex bathrooms at the school are still necessary.

@MichelleofzeResistance

I agree. Having some unisex options sounds like a fabulous idea to me too. Lets add more. Let's add all the ones any child could possibly need, lets be diverse and inclusive and meet all needs.

That isn't what this is. So can we agree removing sex based provision from all girls is a really, really bad and unethical idea?

Hear hear!

The problem with that is if there isn't space or funding for 'extra' unisex toilets, schools may well just use the ones already there, and means there are less single sex toilets available overall.

As pp said, many schools are already struggling for funding for essentials.

Exactly Michelle