Ireland will no longer be providing single sex toilets in primary and secondary schools!!!

[XXSex]

I am LIVID!!! New technical guidance has been released.
www.education.ie/en/School-Design/Technical-Guidance-Documents/Current-Technical-Guidance/sdg-02-06-sanitary-facilities-april-2021-.pdf

All mixed sex. Hand basin outside the WC (WAH your bloody hands in front of boys). Doors down to the floor (any one else see an issue in a mixed sex school with mixed sex toilets with this set up)

What the were the department thinking?!!!

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/3891493/girls-scared-unisex-toilets-period-shaming-harassment/

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/unisex-toilets-period-shaming-sexual-harassment-schools-girls-womens-voices-wales-a8784226.html

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/pupils-missing-school-because-dont-15839558

@Whatwouldscullydo

And I dont think giving kids the choice is a good idea either.

Sometimes they need protecting from themselves. Adults are supposed to step in and make the decisions fir them until they are old enough and wise enough to make them.

I think if these young people are old enough to have to learn some of the subjects they do, especially when they are in secondary school then they have the ability to make a choice of what bathroom they wish to use.

Asugrr

There's a rape a day in schools

Some have just turned 11 in secondary schools.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Asugrr

There's a rape a day in schools

Can you provide evidence of this?

www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/campaign/metoo-at-school/

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56558487

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/27/sexual-abuse-rife-in-state-schools-say-police

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/dec/12/are-we-ignoring-an-epidemic-of-sexual-violence-in-schools

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34138287

[quote ArabellaScott]www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56558487

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/27/sexual-abuse-rife-in-state-schools-say-police[/quote]
Interesting. Thank you for sharing 💜

So, to deal with emergency situations doors will be able to be easily opened from the outside. The Dept of Education doesn't foresee a problem with this.

Sigh.

And so far no issues have come up.

Oh pull the other one.

This political agenda does everything it can to prevent anyone with a problem having a voice, to avoid recording incidents, to minimise the incidents that escape into the public view and to victim blame.

There are 'no problems' with this in refuges - apart from the women with massive problems who no one cares about and who have been excluded

There are 'no problems' with this in prisons - apart from the women who have been harassed and sexually assaulted.

This does not work for all females. Own it.

And you can come talk to the Muslim lady in my area currently talking to the papers and the council about not being able to use loos in the parks because they've all gone gender neutral. Who knows how many other women she's speaking for. Come and tell her there's 'no problem'.

So, to deal with emergency situations doors will be able to be easily opened from the outside. The Dept of Education doesn't foresee a problem with this.

Well maybe they should read all the links above then. How stupid do you have to be to think this is progress?

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/dec/12/are-we-ignoring-an-epidemic-of-sexual-violence-in-schools

I guess the answer to the guardian question is for Ireland yes, and enabling it.

ASugarr I think if these young people are old enough to have to learn some of the subjects they do, especially when they are in secondary school then they have the ability to make a choice of what bathroom they wish to use.

Fair enough, but what about students who don't wish to share their space with the opposite sex - shouldn't they have a choice too?

By all means, add a third unisex space, but I don't think removing single sex spaces is the way forward.

[quote ASugarr]Here's some further information on this:

www.commercialwashroomsltd.co.uk/blog/washroom-design/are-unisex-toilets-legal-in-schools.html[/quote]
Just wanted to point out that the 'further information' you provided is from a commercial company that builds these washrooms, of course it's in their own interest to say how great they are. They had a total of one case study - not exactly resounding research!

In any case, I look at the photos they provide and think how uncomfortable both boys and girls may feel coming out of the bathrooms to be confronted by the opposite sex. At that age, bullying and teasing is rife already, in my mind taking away single sex spaces may just make it worse.
I can just imagine how many teenage boys might use the justification of 'I was just using the urinal' if they want to flash teenage girls. etc. etc.

I can just imagine how many teenage boys might use the justification of 'I was just using the urinal' if they want to flash teenage girls. etc. etc

Surely SURELY there won't be urinals in unisex toilets? Flashing is a crime

Without urinals the girls are just gonna have to wipe the seats clean before they use the toilet...

Nice

All this just proves to me that the 2 sexes are very different. And clearly changing sex is not possible.

The male sex can use urinals, a female can't no matter how she may identify.

The female sex have periods and need separate provision for that. No-one male ever will no matter how they identify.

Just proves what a load of hogwash gender is. Provision should be made on the basis of biological sex. With perhaps mixed sex single occupancy loos for those who don't want to use the facilities of their biological sex.

Data on general unisex changing rooms

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

This does not work for all females. Own it.

Absolutely agree.

You want unisex/mixed gender spaces, fine. Acknowledge that it will impact on women's safety, women's privacy, religious people. I can acknowledge that there may be some advantages to it (cheaper, for one thing).

It would appear there's a balance to be struck between privacy and safety. Some women and girls don't want to or are prohibited from sharing spaces with males. How do we negotiate this?

None of this has any place in schools anyway. Why is there never money for new sports equipment or new books or new computers or provision for kids with disabilities/SN or even loo roll but suddenly there's money for gender neutral toilets.

Ajd to have the nerve to dress it up as beneficial to all when cleaning piss off seats and forcing 11 year old girls to have their first periods next to teenage boys is as far from beneficial as you can get. Why are adults so keen.to use children to prove a point.

[quote ASugarr]Here's some more information. I personally think it's a wonderful idea. I don't think all toilets in a school should be unisex, but it at least gives young people the choice to if they want to or if they prefer to use their genders bathroom.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-39192130[/quote]
That BBC article doesn't persuade me. There is no follow up with the first school that undertook this change. Also, annoyingly it refers to mixed sex toilets as unisex which they are not.

Comments from being a teacher in various schools:
The boys toilet absolutely stink when they open the door - that stink will be carried out into the corridors.
The boys are more likely to wee on the floor and seat of the toilet cubicles at secondary school. Maybe this will improve because I am sure this doesn’t happen at home.
The boys will bang on the doors of the female cubicles. This has happened to me as a teacher in the disabled loo - they laughed as they heard a crinkly tampon wrapper - got the shock of their lives when I stormed out.

When girls are being harassed by boys, the toilets are safe area. This I have close experience of.

I have helped young girls clean period stains off their skirts and trousers using the sinks and hand dryers in the girls loos.

There will be all sorts of stuff in those sanitary bins. And it’s not nice to sit down next to a sanitary bin brushing your thigh, whatever sex you are.

Gangs congregate round the loos. That will still happen. The sink areas will be a major preening area for the alpha females, putting the boys off or a flirting area (splashing water etc) for both, with the alpha males going for vapes in the loos. Either will put off others going to the loo.

The only way it could work is if there are separate traditional toilet facilities for girls and boys too.

The only way it could work is if there are separate traditional toilet facilities for girls and boys too.
Yup, Zanda.

I've read through the OP's link, and there is specific guidance that toilet blocks should be located on each floor; and they should be in the same area, to minimise cost of distributing water/sewage I presume.
I work in schools- there is no way I want to share male staff or male students toilets.
My feelings matter. Give me an option- I might occasionally use unisex, but that is my choice.

A real life report:
My granddaughters both go to the same secondary school. For reference it's not particularly big: less than 500 pupils, 11-16 yrs, mixed sex, in a pleasant rural area.

They have changed the toilet provision to mostly "gender neutral". There are two types. The first is from converting the former cloakroom area where the full height doors open directly onto a main corridor (cubicles all have a small sink).
The second type are the former single sex toilets, which have been converted into the open area type shown in the OP's diagrams.
There is still one small set of single sex toilets.

The results of this as reported by my granddaughters (age 11 and 13).
The mixed toilets absolutely stink, the seats are covered in wee, boys harass the girls by trying to open doors and making rude remarks. This is less prevalent in the cubicles which open onto the main corridor- but they still smell vile.
There is always a queue for the remaining girls toilet- girls get into trouble for being late to lessons due to waiting times.
My youngest is absolutely restricting the amount she drinks- tries to "hold it" all day and arrived home absolutely bursting, regularly wetting herself on the rush to the toilet when she gets home. The other is terrified of having her period at school- and also tries to restrict what she drinks to avoid using the toilets.

This is happening everywhere- what a wonderful advance in the care of our young people. Perfectly obvious that the care and welfare of girls doesn't matter.